Is Russia Still a Threat? Examining the Claims of Golitsyn's 'New Lies For Old

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the claims made in "New Lies For Old" by ex-Soviet spy Anatoliy Golitsyn, particularly regarding the perceived threats posed by Russia and China. Participants explore the implications of Golitsyn's assertions about world domination and the political dynamics between these nations, as well as the trustworthiness of Russia under Vladimir Putin's leadership.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference Golitsyn's assertion that Russian and Chinese leaders are committed to world domination, suggesting they disguise their intentions as democratic.
  • Others argue that fears of Chinese dominance are unfounded, citing Deng Xiao Ping's statements about avoiding dominance and referencing structural issues in China as outlined in "The Coming Collapse of China" by Gordon Ching.
  • Concerns are raised about Putin's actions post-Beslan tragedy, including limiting democracy and state control over major industries like Yukos.
  • Participants note the mysterious poisoning of Yushenko and Putin's strong reactions to perceived US interference in Ukrainian elections as indicators of distrust in Russia.
  • Some mention the joint military exercises between Russia and China as a significant development that could indicate a growing alliance.
  • Golitsyn's prediction accuracy is highlighted, with one participant noting a 94% accuracy rate, which raises questions about the validity of his claims despite their controversial nature.
  • One participant suggests that aspects of Putin's governance may align with fascistic principles, particularly regarding control of production and the leadership's priorities over the populace.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the trustworthiness of Russia or the validity of Golitsyn's claims. Some support Golitsyn's perspective while others challenge it, particularly regarding the capabilities and intentions of China.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various sources and opinions, indicating a reliance on differing interpretations of political events and historical context. The discussion reflects a complex interplay of geopolitical analysis and personal beliefs, with no resolution on the overarching claims made by Golitsyn.

sid_galt
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"New Lies For Old"

Has anybody read "New Lies For Old" by Golitsyn, the ex-Soviet spy.

What did you think of it?

Here is a review of it: http://www.antipas.org/news/russia/proof_pudding.html
 
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Golitsyn's explanation is basic: "The Russian and Chinese leaders are still committed to their objective of world domination and believe that, disguised as 'democrats' ... they will be able to achieve it."

Before Deng Xiao Ping died, he reiterated that China must not seek dominance in any way and that we must try to get along. Any fear of PRC dominance is misplaced for the sheer reason that the country is not capable of doing do. Please kindly refer to "The Coming Collapse of China" by Gordon Ching for an honest exposition of the multitude of structural and systematic problems that are breaking her back.
 
Polly said:
Golitsyn's explanation is basic: "The Russian and Chinese leaders are still committed to their objective of world domination and believe that, disguised as 'democrats' ... they will be able to achieve it."

Before Deng Xiao Ping died, he reiterated that China must not seek dominance in any way and that we must try to get along. Any fear of PRC dominance is misplaced for the sheer reason that the country is not capable of doing do. Please kindly refer to "The Coming Collapse of China" by Gordon Ching for an honest exposition of the multitude of structural and systematic problems that are breaking her back.

But can we trust Russia?

Putin is not showing any positive signs. Consider

1) After the Beslan tragedy, Putin performs his so-called "power grab" in which he limits democracy in local elections.

2) Yukos, Russia's main oil unit is taken over by the state.

3) Yushenko is mysteriously poisoned and Putin is very vehement over the US on that which he calls "interference in Ukrainian elections".

4) In 2005, Russia and China are teaming up for unprecedented joint military exercises.

5) Further, no matter how absurd the accusations by Golitsyn may seem, he does have a prediction accuracy record of 94%.

6) Golitsyn further said that Russia would try to distance Europe from USA. I don't if Russia has any hand but anti-Americanism is certainly growing in Europe.
 
I have seen it asserted online (by partisan sources) that the way to understand Putin's approach is Fascism. While some aspects of Fascism (glorification of the Folk) are missing (Putin seem to want to reunify the non-Russian ex-SSRs), others like control of production in the name of the leadership, not the people, are explicitly fascistic. It's something to think about.
 
sid_galt said:
But can we trust Russia?

Putin is not showing any positive signs. Consider

1) After the Beslan tragedy, Putin performs his so-called "power grab" in which he limits democracy in local elections.

2) Yukos, Russia's main oil unit is taken over by the state.

3) Yushenko is mysteriously poisoned and Putin is very vehement over the US on that which he calls "interference in Ukrainian elections".

4) In 2005, Russia and China are teaming up for unprecedented joint military exercises.

5) Further, no matter how absurd the accusations by Golitsyn may seem, he does have a prediction accuracy record of 94%.

6) Golitsyn further said that Russia would try to distance Europe from USA. I don't if Russia has any hand but anti-Americanism is certainly growing in Europe.

Guess I will never be able to understand how anyone can wilfully slap people around, punch them hard a few times in the stomach, violate them in a variety of ways, and then turn around to say THEY have an attitude. :biggrin:
 

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