Is Science Futile? | Unlocking Nature's Mysteries

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In summary, I do not think that scientists know anything definitive about the universe. Everything is a theory, and as such, could be false. Scientists spend their entire lives trying to understand something that is probably impossible to understand because it's beyond our realm of understanding, and even if we did learn what makes the universe tick, what are we going to do with that knowledge? We can never leave Earth to avoid extinction and we'll eventually die out, and all of our knowledge will be gone.
  • #71
arkajad said:
That's an assumption, a belief of yours, no matter how plausible it may look like to you.

No, it is conclusion based on observation. The belief is that we can observe meaningful data.

Of course the science shares the same belief, and if it is incorrect, then the science is futile. That logical branch is just not interesting to investigate further.
 
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  • #72
Upisoft said:
No, it is conclusion based on observation.

But is your conclusion. It does not follow by logic, it follows by your belief. Other people, with other belief systems, will get different conclusions from the same set of data. Moreover, you select the data set to suit your belief system. So, because you have your beliefs, do not be so harsh on people having different beliefs.
 
  • #73
arkajad said:
But is your conclusion. It does not follow by logic, it follows by your belief. Other people, with other belief systems, will get different conclusions from the same set of data. Moreover, you select the data set to suit your belief system. So, because you have your beliefs, do not be so harsh on people having different beliefs.

That's the first sensible statement I've read here. Usually others have repulsive need to refute my beliefs. :approve:
What do you believe?
 
  • #74
Upisoft said:
What do you believe?

I don't know. I do not want to believe. I want to know.
 
  • #75
arkajad said:
I don't know. I do not want to believe. I want to know.

So you believe in knowledge. Popular one:biggrin:

PS: Me too.
 
  • #76
Without reading all of this thread.

As you keep pointing out, everything will eventually come to an end, so why do we do anything? What is the point of anything, at all? We should all just lay back and let ourselves die.

You can argue science is futile all you like, but on the grounds you are stating in this thread, that also makes everything else every life form on this planet does futile.
 
  • #77
jarednjames said:
Without reading all of this thread.

As you keep pointing out, everything will eventually come to an end, so why do we do anything? What is the point of anything, at all? We should all just lay back and let ourselves die.

You can argue science is futile all you like, but on the grounds you are stating in this thread, that also makes everything else every life form on this planet does futile.
Isn't it obvious? You do what you do, because you look at the picture from different point of view(creating new context). You look at it form "now". Did you ever cared about an neanderthal that hit his thumb with first tool they created? I'm sure the Neanderthal cared about the unpleasant pain though... Every event has multiple points of view.

My point of view cares about what we should do as much as you cared about the Neanderthal. There is no point to choose any specific action and prefer it, as it ultimately does not matter.

If you understood what I'm trying to say, you'd know it is pointless to take any preference in our actions based on it.
 
  • #78
I know exactly what you are saying.

The point is, that you don't know that everything will come to an end, so you can't conclude that science doesn't matter. There are countless examples of many people coming to conclusions which later turned out to be completely wrong.

I accept that given current data, and your definition of "does X matter" that it is likely that science doesn't matter, but given that we are still very primitive and pretty much know nothing, we are in no position to make such claims about the end of the universe, so science does matter.
 
  • #79
Jamma said:
I know exactly what you are saying.

The point is, that you don't know that everything will come to an end, so you can't conclude that science doesn't matter. There are countless examples of many people coming to conclusions which later turned out to be completely wrong.

I accept that given current data, and your definition of "does X matter" that it is likely that science doesn't matter, but given that we are still very primitive and pretty much know nothing, we are in no position to make such claims about the end of the universe, so science does matter.

You are right, of course. Everyone can be wrong. Newton was wrong, Einstein made a correction. But you know if I go now to the GR thread and drop a post "Einstein could be wrong" and say that I base my conclusion on the fact that someone in the future may find another law that will correct him, then I'm sure the thread will be closed as being "overly speculative". Yet the fact that everyone could be wrong doesn't trouble science. It self corrects and goes on. So, if I'm wrong I'll self correct myself when the time comes.
 
  • #80
Upisoft said:
You are right, of course. Everyone can be wrong. Newton was wrong, Einstein made a correction. But you know if I go now to the GR thread and drop a post "Einstein could be wrong" and say that I base my conclusion on the fact that someone in the future may find another law that will correct him, then I'm sure the thread will be closed as being "overly speculative". Yet the fact that everyone could be wrong doesn't trouble science. It self corrects and goes on. So, if I'm wrong I'll self correct myself when the time comes.

It seems that you are being overly speculative in how much you think that we know at the present time. It seems overly speculative to me that we definitely won't one day have a very different picture of the universe to what we do now.
 
  • #81
Jamma said:
It seems that you are being overly speculative in how much you think that we know at the present time. It seems overly speculative to me that we definitely won't one day have a very different picture of the universe to what we do now.
It is as much 'overly speculative' as denying existence of the Invisible Pink Unicorn.
 

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