Is spacetime the surface of a 5 dimensional ball.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of whether spacetime can be conceptualized as the surface of a five-dimensional ball, particularly in the context of a closed universe. Participants explore theoretical implications, historical references, and connections to higher-dimensional theories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if the universe is closed, it might be represented by the surface of a 5-dimensional ball, linking this idea to the concept of time as a circular dimension.
  • Another participant references Michio Kaku's book, noting that Theodor Kaluza's work in 1921 proposed extending general relativity to five dimensions, which purportedly leads to Maxwell's equations emerging from this framework.
  • A request for clarification on the term "fall out" is made, indicating a desire for more precise understanding of the implications of Kaluza's theory.
  • A subsequent reply admits a lack of understanding regarding the details of Kaluza's work and expresses a need for foundational knowledge in general relativity before delving into such topics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and familiarity with the concepts discussed. There is no consensus on the implications of Kaluza's theory or the interpretation of spacetime as a five-dimensional surface, indicating that multiple views and uncertainties remain.

Contextual Notes

Some participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of the mathematics involved in Kaluza's theory and general relativity, which may affect their ability to engage fully with the topic.

Spinnor
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At one time it was thought(still is?) that we live in a closed universe?

So if we live in a closed universe we might try to get a picture of this space by thinking of the space S^3? remember,

S^1 surface of a 2 dimensional ball,
S^2 surface of a 3 dimensional ball,
S^3 surface of a 4 dimensional ball,
S^4 surface of a 5 dimensional ball.

Let us not forget time. In a closed big bang universe can time be thought of as a big circle if we identify beginning and end points? If so can spacetime of a closed universe be thought of as the surface of a 5 dimensional ball?

Thank you for any thoughts.
 
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In chapter 7, "Unification and the Quantum Challange" of Michio Kaku's book "Einstein's Cosmos", a popular science book which I happen to be reading at the moment, such an idea is mentioned.

Theodr Kaluza, in 1921, extended GR to a five dimensional space, and in doing so was able to find that Maxwell's equations "fall out" of such a treatment. I don't know the details behind this, as the book does contain any mathematics, but it sounds like this is the root idea behind much of string theory.
 
Would you mind defining "fall out?"
 
No, I can't really define it. Like I said, I don't know the details, although it sounded much like the Spinnor's description. The Kaku book, which I happened on at the public library, doesn't have any math, also just descriptive:

"Then, in a few lines, Kuluza showed that if the fifth dimension is separated from the other four, Einstein's equations emerged, along with Maxwell's equations!"

If you want more detail, google finds stuff like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaluza-Klein_theory

... I personally can't make much sense of that without first studying GR, something that I don't have any intention of trying without first getting much more SR under my belt;)
 

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