Does True Success Require Academic Achievements?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of success, particularly in relation to academic achievements and personal fulfillment. Participants explore various definitions of success, the impact of societal expectations, and the relationship between happiness and success. The conversation touches on personal experiences and reflections on career paths, especially in the context of pursuing a PhD and the implications of research versus other forms of contribution to society.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant reflects on their initial motivation for pursuing a PhD, linking success to societal impact through research and publication, but later questions this definition after realizing they do not wish to continue in research.
  • Another participant suggests that success is subjective and can be defined by individual experiences and choices, emphasizing that life is what one makes of it.
  • Several participants highlight that personal fulfillment can come from activities outside of work, such as community service, politics, and family life.
  • One participant advises redefining success to avoid unrealistic standards that may lead to dissatisfaction or depression.
  • Another participant questions the feasibility of achieving success by conventional definitions, suggesting that very few people might meet such criteria.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that a degree should serve personal growth and application rather than solely as a means to publish research.
  • One participant discusses the disconnect between success and happiness, arguing that societal narratives often conflate the two, leading to a cycle of deferred happiness.
  • A poetic contribution reflects on the journey of life, suggesting that true joy comes from experiences rather than reaching a specific destination or achievement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the definition of success, with no consensus reached. Some advocate for a broader, more personal understanding of success, while others challenge traditional metrics associated with academic achievements. The discussion remains open-ended, with various perspectives on how success and happiness relate to one another.

Contextual Notes

Participants express differing assumptions about the relationship between academic achievements and personal fulfillment, as well as the societal expectations surrounding success. There is an acknowledgment of the limitations of conventional definitions of success, but no specific resolutions or agreements on new definitions are presented.

tom8
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One of the reasons for me to pursue the PhD path was that you are (more) successful when your work have more impact on the society as a whole. One such way to do that is to publish papers, since these, especially at the basic sciences level, eventually affect the life of the people as a whole.

Later, after starting my PhD career, I realized I do not want to do research after graduating. Some reasons for that have to do with self-assessment. Specifically, I do not think I will ever be able to publish something that is truly fundamental, or breakthrough, or genuinely new, etc. And I do not think that 'lower level' papers will significantly affect the life of people in the society.

Thus I am struggling these days to redefine success. It is a shame that I am only doing this because I could not achieve my own standards for the first definition, but I am doing it nonetheless.

I wonder what people think about this. Can you just live a simple life, work 9-5 in industry, government, etc where you do not do any research, and still 'stands out of the crowd' in some way? Notice how, implicitly, my previous definitions for success considered normal work that is just 'routine job' to be not successful, even if the society as a whole needs these kind of jobs.
 
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tom8 said:
Can you just live a simple life, work 9-5 in industry, government, etc where you do not do any research, and still 'stands out of the crowd' in some way?
Sure. Life is what you make of it.
 
Many people get their personal fulfillment outside of work: community service activities, local politics, raising children...
 
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My advice is to get a new definition of success. If your definition is to be the best in a field you're going to not only drive yourself to depression but have a very inaccurate view of what success means.
 
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I agree with Ryan. How many people alive are successful by your definition? Ten? Four? One? Zero? Out of 7 billion people? That should indicate a redefinition is in order.
 
Your degree is for you and it defines your success. Take what you have learned, apply is where you can and then go on with your life, there are many other things to do that do the world good than publishing.
 
The whole concept of success, I think, can often wear people down because they connect it so intimately with happiness. But success and happiness are two different things and a lot of the popular literature seems to suggest that they aren't anywhere near as correlated as people think. There are lots of examples of people who meet most peoples' definition of successful who are miserable. There are lots of people who don't meet that bar that are perfectly happy.

You weigh yourself down when you subscribe to the notion of "I'll be happy when..." I'm sure you've heard this from a lot of people: I'll be happy when I finish my degree. I'll be happy when I finish the PhD. I'll be happy when I have tenure. I'll be happy when I have children...

Unfortunately that amounts to a whole lot of time not being happy. Somewhere in your head, I think, when reinforced over time, such concepts can really pound their way into your wiring. You can start to feel like you don't deserve to be happy. And then how are you really going to be happy when you finally get to where you're going?

The trick, as I understand it, is to enjoy the ride. Happiness comes from your experiences, not your achievements.
 
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Choppy said:
The trick, as I understand it, is to enjoy the ride. Happiness comes from your experiences, not your achievements.

On that note:

"The Station"

Tucked away in our subconscious is an idyllic vision.
We are traveling by train, out the windows,
we drink in the passing scenes of children
waving at a crossing,
cattle grazing on a distant hillside,
row upon row of corn and wheat,
flatlands and valleys,
mountains and rolling hillsides
and city skylines.

But uppermost in our minds is the final destination.
On a certain day, we will pull into the station.
Bands will be playing and flags waving.
Once we get there, our dreams will come true
and the pieces of our lives
will fit together like a completed jigsaw puzzle.
Restlessly we pace the aisles,
damning the minutes - waiting,
waiting, waiting for the station.

"When we reach the station, that will be it!"
We cry. "When I'm 18." "When I buy a new 450sl Mercedes Benz!"
"When I put the last kid through college."
"When I have paid off the mortgage!"
"When I get a promotion." "When I reach retirement,
I shall live happily ever after!"

Sooner or later, we realize there is no station,
no one place to arrive.
The true joy of life is the trip.
The station is only a dream.
It constantly outdistances us.
"Relish the moment" is a good motto.
It isn't the burdens of today that drive men mad.
It is the regrets over yesterday and the fear of tomorrow.
Regret and fear are twin thieves who rob us of today.
Regret is reality, after the facts. So stop pacing the aisles and counting the miles.
Instead, climb more mountains, eat more ice cream,
go barefoot more often,
swim more rivers, watch more sunsets, laugh more, cry less.
Life must be lived as we go along. The STATION will come soon enough.

by Robert J. Hastings
 

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