MHB Is the Axiom of Choice Necessary to Well-Order Finite Sets?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Csharp
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Finite Sets
Click For Summary
The discussion focuses on demonstrating that every finite set can be well-ordered without the need for the Axiom of Choice. The approach suggested involves using induction on the cardinality of the set, starting with a well-ordered set of size k and extending it to k+1. An ordering is defined for k+1 that incorporates the ordering from k, ensuring that the additional element is greater than all elements in k. It is established that any nonempty subset of k+1 has a lowest member, confirming the well-ordering property. The conclusion emphasizes that every total order on a finite set qualifies as a well-ordering.
Csharp
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Hi,

I want to show that there exists a well ordering for every finite set.

(I know if you add axiom of choice you can prove this theorem for infinite sets too but I think the finite sets do not need axiom of choice to become well ordered)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Have you tried using induction on the cardinality of the set?
 
Good idea.

Suppose that k is well ordered.

k+1= k U {k}

First of all I'll define an ordering on k+1.
If s and t are both in k then I use the ordering from k.
If one of s and t is k then k>s.

Suppose that S is a nonempty subset of k+1.
Then if it doesn't contain k it has a lowest member.
If it contains k then S-{k} has a lowest member which is also lower than k itself.
 
Csharp said:
I want to show that there exists a well ordering for every finite set.
Every total order on a finite set is a well-ordering.
 
There is a nice little variation of the problem. The host says, after you have chosen the door, that you can change your guess, but to sweeten the deal, he says you can choose the two other doors, if you wish. This proposition is a no brainer, however before you are quick enough to accept it, the host opens one of the two doors and it is empty. In this version you really want to change your pick, but at the same time ask yourself is the host impartial and does that change anything. The host...

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K