News Is the Republican Power Structure Immoral and Inevitable?

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The discussion critiques the Republican Party's dominance, describing it as a powerful machine fueled by capitalism and fundamentalist Christianity, with significant control over the media and public policy. Concerns are raised about the implications of this power structure, particularly regarding environmental laws and the welfare of the middle and lower classes. The Democrats are noted for their ability to momentarily challenge Republican policies, such as the child tax credits, but their effectiveness is questioned. Participants debate the perceived media bias, with claims that both parties influence coverage, yet they argue about the extent and impact of this bias. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the complexities of American political dynamics and the ongoing struggle over economic and social policies.
  • #31
What shady military record? I think I would know about anything shady
If you have any proof at all that GWB was not A.W.O.L. during 1972-73, you may be eligible for a $2000 reward.
http://www.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=166
 
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  • #32
Originally posted by schwarzchildradius
I did. The vast majority of valuable stuff is still missing...
Not according to the article.
 
  • #33
You seem a bit disoriented. ;) Here's a quote from one of your cnn articles:
Tony Wilkinson, of the University of Chicago's Oriental Institute, said looting had occurred at the Mosul Museum, where thieves tried to hack a relief sculpture from the wall. Looters also damaged Ninevah, the ancient capital of the Assyrian empire, he said, but soldiers were now protecting Nimrud, site of ancient royal tombs...
But other areas such as Larsa had suffered heavy looting, she said, and there is a thriving trade in stolen antiquities.
She likened this trade to the drug trade, saying it is driven by wealthy people in America, Europe and Japan who want to purchase these ancient items.
Here's the part you wish to emphasize:
McGuire Gibson, professor at the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, said that while the losses from the Baghdad Museum turned out to be less than originally feared, that museum has lost 33 major items and more than 1,000 other pieces.
The final article:
...Although they suspect additional pieces may have been stolen, they declined to speculate on the scope of the additional uncatalogued items that may have been looted...Attorney General John Ashcroft, who led the group, vowed to help the global effort to recover missing items, but did not mention any numbers or refer to the scope of the Baghdad museum thefts.

Sure sounds like they're hiding information to me! (s/a lost key civilization advance items). But its good that they found some of them. I don't know if you saw much of the news feed during the war, but there were some shots of absolutely devastated museums, whatever was not stolen was destroyed.
 
  • #34
Schwarz, maybe you just don't remember how much they said they had lost before. The current figure you quoted from my article was 33 major and "more than 1,000" other pieces. HERE is a BBC article (linked from CNN) dated April 12. From the article:
The museum's deputy director said looters had taken or destroyed 170,000 items of antiquity dating back thousands of years.
Thats more than TWO ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more missing or destroyed items than is currently believed.
 
  • #35
Uhh.. a few days ago I read an article-interview with the head of the Iraqi museum and he said 1. he was misqouted, there were never as many items missing as first reported. 2. They stored most of the items in vaults and others were returned once the Iraqi's felt it was safe. 3. He was upset so he did not tell the americans the truth or correct the misquote. 4. only 22 items are currently missing.

I will find the link..soon.
 
  • #36
oops that should be 33..

here's one article, although not the one I remember reading.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32129-2003Jun8.html?referrer=emailarticle

"I said there were 170,000 pieces in the entire museum collection," said Donny George as he stood with beads of sweat glistening on his forehead in his barren office at the museum. "Not 170,000 pieces stolen."...

"There are only 33 pieces from the main collections that are unaccounted for," George said. "Not 47. Some more pieces have been returned." Museum staff members had taken some of the more valuable items home and are now returning them."...

Although, if the 33 pieces are not found..it is still an awful loss.
 
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  • #37
I'm wondering who the reporter was who took down the quote and where he was from. NY Times...?
 
  • #38
To be clear, it says that 33 items from the "main collections" were not accounted for. That doesn't include items from peripheral collections, or whatever you want to call them, that I presume would be considered less valuable. Schwartschildradius pointed out that over 1,000 other items were taken. Also, this is only referring to the Baghdad Museum. It does not refer to museums such as the one in Tikrit that were looted. I have read that the Mosul Museum was heavily looted.
http://www.sunspot.net/news/nationw...8apr18,0,131401.story?coll=bal-home-headlines
The only things they didn't steal were objects too big and heavy to lift.
Although many items were shipped to Baghdad in anticipation.

That being said, things are looking much, much better than what was originally reported. I am glad for that. I am disappointed in the media's ability to get it right. It seems that they jump on anything that they can make a sensation of.

However, even though the number of items taken or destroyed is not as great as previously thought, I haven't seen anything saying that US or British forces did anything to protect the museums.
------------------------------------
SCR - You mentioned pictures of "devastated" museums. Do you have any links?

Here are some pictures from Baghdad's National Archaeological Museum:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/gallery/0,8542,936742,00.html
Things look rather bad, if you could imagine that happening in the USA, butt not nearly as bad as you are saying happened in places, Schwartz.
 
  • #39
An update here:
http://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/article.asp?idart=11155
Mosul has by far the most important museum outside Baghdad, and initially it was feared that it too had been very badly looted in the last days of the war. But in a report from Mosul for Archaeology Magazine (July-August), Roger Atwood says that most of the important objects had been sent to Baghdad for safekeeping, some leaving only three days before the bombing. It is believed that these 5,500 objects are all safe.
The Warka Vase, the greatest loss from the National Museum in Baghdad, has been recovered. Three men unexpectedly turned up at the museum on 12 June, with the sacred vessel of 3200 BC on the back seat of their car.
The storeroom was in a state of complete chaos, with unrecorded objects littering the floor. Museum director Nawala Al-Mutwalli admitted that it had been left in this condition before the war by her staff - and the scene was not the result of looting.

I'm having a wait n see attitude on a lot of the Iraqi war "news" including the whole WMD thang. BTW..have they found Saddam's huge underground facilities yet??
 
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  • #40
Originally posted by Dissident Dan
I am disappointed in the media's ability to get it right. It seems that they jump on anything that they can make a sensation of.
Ding, ding. Yep.

And so because of that, maybe I'm wrong about motive here. The Jessica Lynch story was easy to sensationalize both coming and going. Blame the error on the military. But this one can't be sensationalized in the retraction. Blame it on...the reporter? Nah. So that could be why there is the disparity.
 
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  • #41
Originally posted by russ_watters
Ding, ding. Yep.

And so because of that, maybe I'm wrong about motive here. The Jessica Lynch story was easy to sensationalize both coming and going. Blame the error on the military. But this one can't be sensationalized in the retraction. Blame it on...the reporter? Nah. So that could be why there is the disparity.

The disparity in reporting lies in the fact that to retract this story would be a cool person in the military PR armor. And, after all, we cannot criticize the military, because Bush wouldn't approve.
 
  • #42
Originally posted by Zero
The disparity in reporting lies in the fact that to retract this story would be a cool person in the military PR armor. And, after all, we cannot criticize the military, because Bush wouldn't approve.


wow. boggle.

massive media reporting that shows entire museum collections missing, stolen, destroyed..making the military look bad...turns out to be sensationalism.

massive media reporting that shows a heroic rescue that makes the military look good...later turns out to be sensationalism...

what's the common denominator here?
 
  • #43
It means that the media is a bunch of dolts?
 
  • #44
This Link provided by Dan is very important.
In any case, if a significant number of important items were found, we don't know if they are very important s/a Hammaurabi's code or not, but I think we can assume that they are NOT, because such a discovery would be reported by at least the Pentagon.
The article linked to by RW claims that pieces were discovered in a vault, but does not identify a single piece (except for in a separate article where one vase was found). Rummy can claim that he found whatever and not tell what whatever is! That's hogwash! They just want to make everybody feel good about what they're doing meanwhile US soldiers perish.
 
  • #45
Originally posted by schwarzchildradius
This Link provided by Dan is very important.
In any case, if a significant number of important items were found, we don't know if they are very important s/a Hammaurabi's code or not, but I think we can assume that they are NOT, because such a discovery would be reported by at least the Pentagon.
The article linked to by RW claims that pieces were discovered in a vault, but does not identify a single piece (except for in a separate article where one vase was found). Rummy can claim that he found whatever and not tell what whatever is! That's hogwash! They just want to make everybody feel good about what they're doing meanwhile US soldiers perish.

The Code of Hammurabi is in the Louvre in Paris and has been for almost a century!
 
  • #46
That's a copy, and there is another copy in the British Museum.
 
  • #47
Originally posted by schwarzchildradius
That's a copy, and there is another copy in the British Museum.

Uhh, no. The Code of Hammurabi is in the Louvre. The one in Iraq and that which is in the law museum in Germany are copies. This is why they thought it was an inside job at the Iraq museum..because they left the COPY of the Code of Hammurabi!
 
  • #48
Let's get back on topic, shall we?
 

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