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B Is the Universe Inside a Black Hole?

  1. Jan 16, 2017 #1
    "Before the big bang, scientists believe, the entire vastness of the observable universe, including all of its matter and radiation, was compressed into a hot, dense mass just a few millimeters across." Isn't this describing what the singularity of a black hole is? Black holes spin extremely fast, close to the speed of light which causes torsion. According to Dr. Poplawski, "This torsion is not just small and heavy; it's also twisted and compressed. This can suddenly unspring with a bang. Make that the Big Bang (or the Big Bounce)". So could our universe be nestled inside of a black hole? If so, is the black hole inside another universe?
     
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  3. Jan 16, 2017 #2
    From a theoretical standpoint this sounds perfectly logical, having all that mass packed into that small of an area should yeild a blackhole, and because of torsion it could be likely that it was the cause for the sudden expansion of our universe that is the big bang. But there is some conflicting evidence such as the schwarzschild radius of the universe is believed to be about 13.7 billon light years while the distance to the edge of the observable universe is about 46 billion light years since the universe is expanding all the time. But in the end there is pretty much no way to tell weather or not the universe is in a black hole or not. In order to do that we would have to know exactly what happened at the supposed begining of the universe and most likely even bore that.
    Here are some links supporting both sides mind you though they are both in the favor of their belief:

    https://www.insidescience.org/news/every-black-hole-contains-new-universe

    http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2010/04/28/the-universe-is-not-a-black-hole/

    (A bit of a disclaimer also, i'm just a high school student and obviously don't know everything about blackholes the universe etc. this was just kind of my two cents hopefully someone else will be able to answer your question better.)
     
  4. Jan 16, 2017 #3

    phinds

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    No, it is not. You are overlooking that they are not talking about the universe, they are talking about the OBSERVABLE universe, which is believed to be many orders of magnitude smaller than the universe (and that's only if the universe is finite which it may not be). This entire "universe is a black hole" has been discussed here many times. I suggest a forum search.
     
  5. Jan 16, 2017 #4

    Drakkith

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    No. A black hole singularity has a finite amount of mass packed into zero volume, yielding an infinite density (though technically it's undefined, not infinite). The very early observable universe was packed into a non-zero volume, not zero volume.
     
  6. Jan 18, 2017 #5
    So there was no initial singularity?
     
  7. Jan 18, 2017 #6

    Drakkith

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    There is a singularity if you take the current model back to t=0, but this is believed to be a result of our incomplete knowledge of physics at the huge energy and density scales of the early universe. It is considered unlikely that a singularity actually existed.

    Note that singularities arise in models all the time. Optical caustics have singularities, but you don't see a black hole form every time sunlight shines through a glass to form a caustic.

    In short, we know that our knowledge of the early universe is extremely limited and nonsensical predictions should be treated very skeptically.
     
  8. Jan 18, 2017 #7
    Ok, thanks for the clarity
     
  9. Jan 18, 2017 #8
    The idea that our universe STARTED as a black hole is a good concept, but I don't think you could really argue that our universe, in its current state, is inside a black hole. The gravitational effects are not relatively close to that of a black hole and the matter is fairly spread out, compared to the infinite density of the black hole's singularity. It's a good thought though.
     
  10. Jan 18, 2017 #9

    phinds

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    No, it isn't. Had it started as a BH it would have stayed that way, not expanded the way it did.
     
  11. Jan 19, 2017 #10
    When I say good concept, I mean an interesting concept. And by that, I mean the similarities between the supposed state of condensed matter before the Big Bang and a black
    hole singularity. I'm obviously not saying for a fact that our universe started as a black hole.
     
  12. Jan 19, 2017 #11

    phinds

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    It's not clear, and certainly not a proven fact, that the singularities of (1) the Big Bang precursor and (2) the BH singularity, have ANYTHING to do with each other. They ARE both ares of high density that we don't understand but may well be otherwise unrelated.
     
  13. Jan 19, 2017 #12
    And with our limited knowledge of black holes, and our extremely limited knowledge of the Big Bang, and the fact that they are the only singularities in our universe with infinite density, I find it hard to completely rule out a theory that they are related. I am also not saying I even believe they are related. Simply that there are similarities between them that are hard to disprove.
     
  14. Jan 19, 2017 #13

    phinds

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    No argument there.
     
  15. Jan 19, 2017 #14
    Please provide one piece of evidence that completely rules out the theory. One piece of evidence that disproves that black hole singularities and the original point of the Big Bang are not related at all.
     
  16. Jan 19, 2017 #15

    phinds

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    Reread post #11
     
  17. Jan 19, 2017 #16
    That, by no means, is evidence. That's just you saying there's nothing to prove it's true. I'm asking you to prove it is false.
     
  18. Jan 19, 2017 #17

    phinds

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    No, that's saying clearly that there IS no proof so I was puzzled as to why you would even ask me for proof.
     
  19. Jan 19, 2017 #18
    And I am puzzled as to why you are trying so hard to disprove this theory with no evidence to disprove it. Will K provided the evidence of the density relationship and the torsion possibly causing a "big bang". You have nothing, and that isn't why I am asking you for evidence.
     
  20. Jan 19, 2017 #19
    That is* why
     
  21. Jan 19, 2017 #20

    phinds

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    You cannot prove a negative, so that's a pointless discussion.
     
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