Is the vacuum of space really devoid of 'everything'?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of a perfect vacuum in space, exploring definitions, implications of quantum mechanics, and the nature of energy and matter in such regions. Participants examine whether a vacuum can truly be devoid of all particles and energy, and the theoretical limits imposed by quantum field theory and thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a perfect vacuum is defined as a region without Hadrons, Baryons, or Fermions.
  • Another participant argues that if such a vacuum exists, it must still be permeated by electromagnetic radiation.
  • A participant references the time-energy uncertainty principle to claim that a true vacuum cannot exist, as it would imply a violation of the uncertainty relationship.
  • Virtual particle creation and annihilation processes are mentioned as ongoing phenomena in quantum field theory, with experimental evidence provided by the Casimir Force.
  • One participant posits that an area devoid of both matter and energy would theoretically reach Absolute Zero, which is considered impossible by several physical laws.
  • Another participant questions whether a region devoid of matter would already be at 0K, considering the absence of thermal agitation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of vacuums, with some agreeing on the impossibility of a true vacuum while others explore different implications and questions. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of quantum mechanics and the implications of their claims, indicating a reliance on theoretical frameworks that may not be fully agreed upon.

Chaos' lil bro Order
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First off, I guess a solid definition of a perfect vacuum is needed. I think it is a region of space in which no Hadrons, Baryons, or Fermions exist. Is this correct?

Secondly, assuming a region of space like this exists, surely this region must be permeated by some form of EM radiation propagating through it, right?

With these two questions in mind, my main question then becomes... Isn't it impossible to have a region of space that is devoid of both elementary particles and photons?


OT - If one subscribes to idea of a quantum foam, does this foam necessarily permeate every cubic inch of space, or could there be regions of space where no foam exists?



Forgive me for the loosely worded questions, I am not conversant enough in QM to articulate them properly. Any suggestions or answers are welcome, ty.
 
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From the time - energy uncertainty relationship, one can deduce that indeed, there is no such thing as a vacuum. For this would imply delta E = 0 violating the inequality.

in quantum field theory, which I have not studied so my explanation is not to be considered authoritative, there are virtual particle creation - annihilation processes going on all the time. This is measured experimentally by the Casmir Force. Google this, it's good stuff.
 
Yes, I like your two points ptabor. That makes good sense to me, ty.
 
Also, if an area of space could be devoid of both matter and energy, it would reach Absolute Zero, which is (theoretically) impossible; forbidden by QFT, HUP, Thermodynamics, and several other laws.
 
Interesting points Lurch. You have inspired another question, if a region of space is devoid of matter, won't it already be at 0K since even if there is radiation present, there will be no matter to be thermally agitated?
 

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