Is There Always a Solution for b^x - b^y to be Divisible by a?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether for any natural numbers \( a \) and \( b \) (with \( b > 1 \)), there exist natural numbers \( x \) and \( y \) such that \( b^x - b^y \) is divisible by \( a \). The scope includes number theory and mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that for any natural numbers \( a \) and \( b \) (with \( b > 1 \)), suitable \( x \) and \( y \) can always be found such that \( b^x - b^y \) is divisible by \( a \).
  • Another participant provides a factorization of \( b^x - b^y \) and suggests that if \( a \) and \( b \) are coprime, there exists a \( z \) such that \( a \) divides \( b^z - 1 \), referencing Euler's theorem.
  • A participant expresses a need for clarification on the mathematical concepts discussed, indicating a background in a different field (medicine) and seeking to understand the implications of the proof presented.
  • Concerns are raised about the application of Euclid's algorithm in the context of the discussion, particularly regarding its application to non-integer values.
  • An example is provided with specific values for \( a \) and \( b \) to illustrate the calculation of \( 1/a \) in base \( b \), leading to specific values for \( x \) and \( y \).
  • A suggestion is made to consider the graph of \( z = b^y - b^x \) and its relationship to divisibility by \( a \), proposing a geometric interpretation of the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of understanding and approaches to the problem, with some proposing methods and others questioning the validity or clarity of those methods. No consensus is reached on the overall question of whether a solution always exists.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the applicability of Euclid's algorithm to non-integer contexts, as well as the need for clearer definitions of terms and methods used in the discussion.

Petr Mugver
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For any natural number a and b, with b > 1, two natural numbers x and y can always be found such that b^x - b^y is divisible by a.

Until now, with many tries of a and b, I have always found corresponding x and y.

I would appreciate if somebody could give me a proof or a counter example.
 
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Hi Petr Mugver! :smile:

It seems to be always possible. Note that (if x>y) we can factor

[tex]b^x-b^y=b^y(b^{x-y}-1)[/tex]

By this factorization, we can assume a coprime of b. Indeed, if pk is a prime power that divides both a and b, then pk will divide bk. So we just need to choose y>k.

Now, if a and b are coprime, then I claim that there is always a z such that a divides bz-1. Or, in other words, that bz=1 (mod a). This follows immediately from Euler's theorem and we can choose [itex]z=\varphi(a)[/itex].
 
Thanks for the reply!

I need to "translate" it though (I am a physician and quite unfamiliar with all this number theory stuff), but I assume that your answer is correct, so just give me some time to understand it!

Now, please tell me: has your answer something to do with the proof I figured out, which is the following:

I calculate 1/a using Euclid Algorithm "in base b". Then 1/a will be a certain number c plus an infinite geometric series in b, in other words

1/a = c + d/(1 - b^-k) = [(cb^k - c) + db^k] / (b^k - 1)

so if d is not zero (b^k - 1) is divisible by a, and if d = 0 then b^k is divisible by a.

This is certainly less elegant, but is it the same thing?
 
Your proof is quite nice, but I don't see how you obtained the following:

Petr Mugver said:
Then 1/a will be a certain number c plus an infinite geometric series in b

You somehow applied Euclid's algorithm to something, but I don't quite see it. (also not that Euclid's algorithm applies to integers only!)
 
micromass said:
You somehow applied Euclid's algorithm to something, but I don't quite see it. (also not that Euclid's algorithm applies to integers only!)

For (a simple) example, let a = 6 and b = 10.

Calculating 1/6 in base 10 (that's what I mean by Euclid's Algorithm) you get

1/6 = 0,1666... = 16,666.../100 = (10 + 6 x sum_k(10^-k))/100 =
= (10 + 60/9)/100 = 150/900

so x = 3 and y = 2.
 
Would it make sense to think of the graph of z = b^y - b^x?

if (b^y-b^x)/a = integer

b^y - b^x = integer * a

z = integer * a

It should be a plane that intersects all values of z.
 
Last edited:

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