Is There Destiny? - Can We Predict the Future?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of destiny and the possibility of predicting the future based on physical laws and theories. Participants explore the implications of chaos theory, the Uncertainty Principle, and the nature of randomness in the universe, with a focus on theoretical and conceptual aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if a supercomputer could know all physical measurements of atoms, it could predict future events, implying a deterministic view of the universe.
  • Another participant counters that chaos theory and the Uncertainty Principle prevent accurate predictions, emphasizing the impossibility of knowing every particle's position and velocity.
  • Some participants argue that while predictions can be made (e.g., weather forecasting), the concept of destiny implies a lack of choice, which is not supported by scientific observation.
  • A participant mentions that chaos can lead to unexpected divergences in systems with similar initial conditions, introducing complexity in predictions.
  • There is a discussion about whether chaos and hidden variables stem from the limitations of physical laws or if true randomness exists in the universe.
  • Another participant asserts that the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle indicates a non-deterministic universe, where prediction accuracy is limited by the number of particles involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of destiny and the predictability of the future, with no consensus reached on whether true randomness exists or if limitations are due to incomplete understanding of physical laws.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations imposed by chaos theory and the Uncertainty Principle, noting that these factors complicate predictions and introduce uncertainty into the discussion.

byron321
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I know that the world is made of atoms and energy, so humans. If we have a supercomputer that know the velocities, masses and other physical measurements of all the atoms at a specific time, then we can predict what will going to happen in the next second using laws of physics. Is that mean we can predict the future and there is destiny?
 
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First of all, due to chaos theory unless you know the EXACT position and velocity of EVERY particle in the universe your prediction will break down. That is an impossible feat in and of itself. Secondly, the Uncertainty Principle only allows for simultaneous knowledge of a particle's position and velocity up to a certain point. This induces non-determinism into our universe. Maybe, however, quantum mechanics is an incomplete theory. But, in the current understanding of the physical world the short answer to your question is no.
 
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Its called predicting the weather and/or you can read daily horoscopes which aren't always right just like the weather. Destiny is what you make it.
 
It means that given a set of initial conditions, and assuming they are sufficient to describe a system, one can make predictions about that system which will be fairly accurate.

However, like silmaril89 said, chaos is a tricky devil, and there are some "hidden variables" which can cause a system to diverge rather unexpectedly even though the initial conditions are similar (or even the same!).
 
Byron, the short answer is that Science has never observed anything that could be described as "Destiny". Not like most people talk about it. It IS true that we can predict events with amazing accuracy, but Destiny implies that you have no choice in the matter.
 
It is the destiny of a ball to fall to the floor when I let go of it.
 
Thanks all
Are the chaos and hidden variables due to the imperfection of our physics laws or there is true randomness is our universe?
I just wonder if there is no true randomness in our universe and all the uncertainties are due to our incomplete understanding of the laws governing the behavior of all things, can we predict what will happen in the next second, for example in a frictional universe that contains only 2 atoms?
 
You can only predict it to a certain degree because of the uncertaintity principle.
 
As far as we can tell (and we have checked quite a bit), HUP is a fact. Thus, the universe is non-determisitic. That means it is impossible to predict the future better than a certain level of accuracy (which will be determined by the number of particles in the system). Error increases exponentially with more particles.
 

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