Is this a correct application of the reduction method?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the reduction method in proving the undecidability of positive existential theories in mathematical logic. Participants explore the formulation and correctness of the reduction process, including the translation of formulas between two theories.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a formulation of the reduction method, suggesting that if an undecidable theory $T'$ can be interpreted in another theory $T$, then $T$ must also be undecidable.
  • Another participant revises the formulation to emphasize the need for a computable mapping from the sentences of $T'$ to those of $T$.
  • Some participants propose that the specific terms "positive" and "existential" may not be crucial for the reduction method's validity, suggesting it could apply to other fragments of the theories as well.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of agreement on the formulation and its implications, with some suggesting improvements while others affirm the general approach. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the final formulation or its correctness.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the computability of the mapping and the significance of the terms used in the theories. The discussion reflects differing interpretations of the reduction method's application.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

Is the following formulation of the reduction correct? Undecidability of an (positive) existential theory $T$ is proved often by reduction, i.e., by interpreting another (positive) existential theory $T'$, known to be undecidable, in $T$.

Each formula $\phi'$ of the language of $T'$ is translated into a formula $\phi$ of the language of $T$.

So, the (positive) existential theory $T'$ is reduced to the (positive) existential theory $T$.

Since $T'$ is undecidable, $T$ is also undecidable.
An other way to apply the reduction is the following: We suppose that the (positive) existential theory $T$ is decidable. We want to interpret $T$ in another (positive) existential theory $T'$, known to be undecidable.

Each formula $\phi$ of the language of $T$ is translated into a formula $\phi'$ of the language of $T'$.

So, the (positive) existential theory $T$ is reduced to the (positive) existential theory $T'$.

Since $T'$ is undecidable and we have supposed that $T$ is decidable, we aget a contradiction.

So, $T$ is also undecidable.

Is everything correct? Could I improve something at the formulation?
 
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I changed the formulation...

Undecidability of an (positive) existential theory $T$ is proved often by reducing an other (positive) existential theory $T'$, which is known to be undecidable,to $T$, i.e., by a mapping from the (positive) existential sentences in the language of $T'$ to the (positive) existential sentences in the language of $T$, $$\phi' \mapsto \phi$$ such that $T'$ proves $\phi'$ iff $T$ proves $\phi$.
Is the formulation now correct? Could I improve something?
 
I agree. Of course, the mapping $\phi'\mapsto\phi$ has to be computable. I also don't think that "positive" and "existential" are important here; this construction works for any fragment of $T'$ and $T$.
 
Ok... Thanks a lot! (Smile)
 

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