Is Time an Objective Measurement or an Illusion?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of time, specifically whether it is an objective measurement or an illusion. Participants explore various perspectives on time as a measurement of motion, the implications of its subjective experience, and the influence of popular media on scientific discourse.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that time is fundamentally a measurement of motion, suggesting it cannot be an illusion as long as motion exists.
  • Others question the implications of time if nothing moves, raising uncertainty about its nature in such a scenario.
  • A few participants express frustration with popular media representations of scientific concepts, labeling them as clickbait and suggesting they misrepresent the underlying scientific discussions.
  • One participant emphasizes that terms like "real," "reality," and "illusion" are not well-defined in physics, advocating for a view of time as a useful concept rather than an absolute truth.
  • Some participants reference Shakespeare to illustrate the subjective experience of time, noting that emotional states can alter one's perception of time's passage.
  • There are requests for recommendations on non-popular science articles about time that are accessible without heavy mathematical content, indicating a desire for deeper understanding without complex mathematics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of time, with no consensus reached. Some agree on the measurement aspect of time, while others raise questions about its subjective experience and the implications of its potential illusionary nature.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion is influenced by the framing of time in popular articles, which may not accurately reflect the scientific nuances. There is also mention of the complexity introduced by theories such as Special Relativity, which complicate the understanding of time.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring philosophical questions about time, as well as individuals seeking a deeper understanding of time in the context of physics without delving into advanced mathematics.

stsmhood
I was reading an article on scientists claiming an illusionary nature of time: https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a61021621/is-time-just-an-illusion/.

These sorts of speculations really bother me.

Time is a measurement of motion. As long as motion exists, time can be used to measure it. Time will never be an illusion. It is a tool to measure the duration of motion.

Is anyone else bothered by the types of speculations that articles like the one above submit?
 
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stsmhood said:
Time is a measurement of motion. As long as motion exists, time can be used to measure it.

So if nothing moves what happens to time?
 
It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
 
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hutchphd said:
It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Yes. Decoding the 'Bard of Avon', Hamlet contemplates life, indeed the Universe, subjectively. When a human experiences happiness, time (subjectively) passes quickly. Unhappy times -- the Prince of Denmark revels in misery despite wealth, old friends and a hot girlfriend -- pass oh so slowly.

I have not read the linked papers yet today but have often encountered this concept. Shakespeare anticipates pre-Enlightenment poetry giving way to scientific method. Time is what is measured by clocks, not by counting riffles in a flowing stream.
 
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stsmhood said:
I was reading an article on scientists claiming an illusionary nature of time: ....

Is anyone else bothered by the types of speculations that articles like the one above submit?
It bothers me when the key words in the title ("illusion" and "mind") don't appear in the article. That means that regardless of if the article is any good (it references a peer reviewed paper in a quality journal...) the title is just clickbait, possibly not even written by the same person.
 
stsmhood said:
I was reading an article on scientists claiming an illusionary nature of time: https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a61021621/is-time-just-an-illusion/.

These sorts of speculations really bother me.

Time is a measurement of motion. As long as motion exists, time can be used to measure it. Time will never be an illusion. It is a tool to measure the duration of motion.

Is anyone else bothered by the types of speculations that articles like the one above submit?
Words like "real", "reality" and "illusion" are not well-defined in physics. Physics has natural phenomena, experiments involving these and theories/mathematical models to explain/predict the results of these experiments. There's no absolute, unambiguous sense in which, for example, the electromagnetic field is "real" or an "illusion". The same goes for time.

The simplest approach I can suggest is to call things like time, space and the EM field useful concepts! They are useful in describing natural phenomena and map directly to elements of the mathematical model.
 
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russ_watters said:
the title is just clickbait, possibly not even written by the same person.
Most titles are now clickbait, generated by AI.
 
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Kind of on subject (please move if there is a better forum for this); can any one recommend non-pop sci articles on Time that are not too heavy on the higher maths?
 
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ShadowKraz said:
Kind of on subject (please move if there is a better forum for this); can any one recommend non-pop sci articles on Time that are not too heavy on the higher maths?
Time itself is a quite a simple concept in physics - until you study Relativity. If you want to understand time in the context of Special Relativity (SR), then the opening chapter of Morin's book is available online. (If you see yourself as an "enthusiastic beginner"!) There is not much between pop science and this. Note that SR is light on maths. Mostly high school maths.

https://davidmorin.physics.fas.harvard.edu/books/special-relativity/
 
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PeroK said:
Time itself is a quite a simple concept in physics - until you study Relativity. If you want to understand time in the context of Special Relativity (SR), then the opening chapter of Morin's book is available online. (If you see yourself as an "enthusiastic beginner"!) There is not much between pop science and this. Note that SR is light on maths. Mostly high school maths.

https://davidmorin.physics.fas.harvard.edu/books/special-relativity/
Thank you.
Edit: Found it, will probably just go ahead and buy the book next month.
 
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