Jessica Watson's Solo Sail: Hero or Reality TV Star?

[Monique]

I guess my problem is where do you draw the line? If a 15 year old decides they want to be the first child to solo bicycle across Siberia, do we let them leave school and take off?

Having goals and dreams and working towards them are to be commended, but when it is age appropriate. Call me a fuddy duddy, but I believe in restricting what my children do when they are young, they can do whatever they please when they are of legal age. I don't see any reason why they can't wait a couple of years.

One of the court rules is that Laura Dekker needs to continue with following schoolwork. There are more teenagers that are self-home schooling, for instance when the parents don't have a fixed home base. Apparently it is a proven concept, I think the Australian girl also did her homework on the boat.

What is age appropriate is hard to tell, some people are more mature than others at a certain age. Of course at the age of 15 the parents should have a definitive say, but I think they are afraid that their child will hate them forever when they say no. That's of course a very egoistical reason, that's why the court made an impartial decision.

 

[russ_watters]

Why? Many single handed circumnavigators have died at sea, and many have done just fine, including several young women.

Have any single-handed circumnavigating kids died at sea? When people see someone in a situation like their own die, they become more risk averse, especially if it is their kids. It becomes more personal.

 

[russ_watters]

Russ, this is nothing more that profiling, and at best an unscientific attempt at it. You have some notions of how a (statistical) population generally behaves and what motivates them, and you are using that to draw conclusions about one particular specimen within that population. That's just plain wrong.

Besides, you are stating as a fact about a specific family what is really nothing more than an opinion based on your own amateur (I'm using that term in its technical sense) interpretation of perceived general trends.
[separate post]
Also, it tickles me when people who have no experience or in-depth knowledge of a field pass judgment on the risks involved and decide to label people who have loads of experience in said field as "stupid"! Where does the conviction for such judgment arise from?

Well first of all, you don't know much about me or whether I have any sailing experience, but second, you act as if I'm pulling this out of thin air or that true experts in the field don't share such an opinion. But such opinions are easy to find:

Watson's journey has been criticised, particularly after the collision with the freighter. Barry Tyler of Pacific Motor Yacht magazine wrote, "like the majority of the seafaring world consider it irresponsible, cavalier and indeed ignorant to attempt such a feat, at such a tender age and with so little trans-ocean experience."[30]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Watson#cite_ref-Tyler2009-11_29-0

Again, she collided with a container ship! She demonstrated her insufficient experience!

So I stand by my position:
1. The risk is not worth the reward - it is a bad idea.
2. Because it is a bad idea, it is almost certainly poorly motivated by the parents.

 

[russ_watters]

Regarding the record, here's an interesting tidbit:

Last year when looking for sponsors, Jessica's PR management representatives, 5 Oceans Media, sent out a written prospectus to potential sponsors. This prospectus and then the contract sponsors signed stated her 'record attempt' would be conducted in full compliance with the rules and requirements of the World Sailing Speed Record Council (WSSRC).

Here is an extract from the the contract appendix, supplied to us by one of Jessica’s official sponsors:

The premise of the Voyage is for Jessica Watson to sail single-handed around the World non-stop, without assistance. The intended result is for Jessica to be the youngest person to ever do so.

The voyage will follow the rules and guidelines of the World Sailing Speed Record Council (WSSRC).

The route will commence from Sydney Harbour in or before the fourth quarter of 2009. The minimum distance is 21,600 nautical miles and is expected to take approximately 230 days.

When we saw that Jessica’s 'Great Circle*' route, as drafted and expanded in August/September 2009, we realized it would see her sailing a much shorter distance than the 21,600nm she needed to have done to achieve a properly constituted circumnavigation.

At the time we immediately contacted by phone and then email Andrew Fraser from 5 Oceans Media for explanations on what record she would be attempting to break, as it was clear that she could not beat Jesse Martin’s record,if she was sailing a shorter course. Andrew promised to get back to us, then he arranged for other people to come back to us.

Unfortunately, we didn’t get clear answers back then, and we still do not have them.

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Jessica-Watson---no-criticism-of-Jessica---just-her-PR-Team/69253

I don't like hype.

 

[mheslep]

Have any single-handed circumnavigating kids died at sea? When people see someone in a situation like their own die, they become more risk averse, especially if it is their kids. It becomes more personal.

Yep, didn't see how young she was. https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2754242&postcount=50

 

[rootX]

...

I don't like hype.

She took advantage of the opportunity out there and succeeded. I do not know what she was looking for but from my perspective she did right thing at right time, before too many teenagers start doing this and one of them dies. I am assuming that she has made good money from this.

But should her parents or others stopped her from doing this when she was going to start? Yes.

 

[Evo]

We might have the first teen death from trying to sail around the world alone. Apparently she does not have rescue boat escorts, she's truly alone. I hope she turns out all right.

Thursday, June 10, 2010 9:43am PDT

Emergency rescue effort is launched for teen sailor Abby Sunderland

By: Pete Thomas, GrindTV.com
A rescue effort has been launched in hope of finding Abby Sunderland, 16, who set off her emergency beacon locating devices from the southern Indian Ocean early this morning.

Sunderland, who had been attempting to sail around the world alone, endured multiple knockdowns in 60-knot winds Thursday before conditions briefly abated.

However, her parents lost satellite phone contact early this morning and an hour later were notified by the Australian Coast Guard that both of Sunderland's EPIRB satellite devices had been activated.

One is apparently is attached to a survival suit or a life raft and meant to be used when a person is in the water or aboard a life raft.

Abby's father struggled with emotions and said he didn't know if his daughter was in a life raft or aboard the boat, or whether the boat was upside down.

http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/blog/17943/emergency+rescue+effort+is+launched+for+teen+sailor+abby+sunderland/

 

[Evo]

It may be 2 days before any ships can reach her. God bless her soul. Why was a 16 year old out alone, why weren't there rescue boats surrounding her like the other children?

But then it goes back to...why are children trying to go around the world in boats when they have no experience with the type of conditions they can encounter? 60 knot winds, huge waves?

 

[lisab]

It may be 2 days before any ships can reach her. God bless her soul. Why was a 16 year old out alone, why weren't there rescue boats surrounding her like the other children?

But then it goes back to...why are children trying to go around the world in boats when they have no experience with the type of conditions they can encounter? 60 knot winds, huge waves?

Pirates - seriously. A cute 16-year-old girl, alone (and I mean *totally alone*)? Whew.

 

[Cyrus]

We might have the first teen death from trying to sail around the world alone. Apparently she does not have rescue boat escorts, she's truly alone. I hope she turns out all right.



http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/blog/17943/emergency+rescue+effort+is+launched+for+teen+sailor+abby+sunderland/

And this is why you don't let 16 year old sail around the world alone.

 

[DaveC426913]

We might have the first teen death from trying to sail around the world alone.

[TotallyBadTaste]

Boy, when Evo wins an argument, she doesn't merely win it; people die.

Evo, you have a Friend that believes in you, even if you don't believe in Him.

[/TotallyBadTaste]

 

[Desiree]

God bless her soul. Why was a 16 year old out alone, why weren't there rescue boats surrounding her like the other children?

They shouldn't have let her sail all alone if that's the case. I am not sure if this girl has had any sailing experience or has anyone been watching her? Yeah, I agree, this is the stupid case, like I pointed out in my other posts.

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...a-in-solo-effort-to-circle-the-globe/1?csp=hf
P.S.
Do you really believe in "God"? I thought everybody on this science forum is an atheist of some sort

 

[Evo]

[TotallyBadTaste]

Boy, when Evo wins an argument, she doesn't merely win it; people die.

Evo, you have a Friend that believes in you, even if you don't believe in Him.

[/TotallyBadTaste]

Just reporting the news.

 

[rootX]

They shouldn't have let her sail all alone if that's the case. I am not sure if this girl has had any sailing experience or has anyone been watching her? Yeah, I agree, this is the stupid case, like I pointed out in my other posts.

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...a-in-solo-effort-to-circle-the-globe/1?csp=hf
P.S.
Do you really believe in "God"? I thought everybody on this science forum is an atheist of some sort

What god has to do with this?



.. and bad taste, isn't it just true that underage person doing something like this has higher chances of dying stating it doesn't change the reality.

 

[rewebster]

Adults don't always do well either when they attempt things-

--look how many adults have died trying to climb Everest, or stunt flying--

-there's a whole bunch of things out there that adults do that turn out to be deadly

 

[Evo]

Adults don't always do well either when they attempt things-

--look how many adults have died trying to climb Everest, or stunt flying--

-there's a whole bunch of things out there that adults do that turn out to be deadly

But they're adults. Don't tell me that you think a child between 14-16 is the same as a 29-39 year old adult.

 

[DaveC426913]

What god has to do with this?

You're asking the wrong person. Desiree's question about God was in response to Evo's God Bless comment in post 58.

 

[rewebster]

But they're adults. Don't tell me that you think a child between 14-16 is the same as a 29-39 year old adult.

I've know some pretty stupid 'adults' doing stupid things and acting in stupid ways----

I think a lot of it is just experience in the given area.

 

[Evo]

I've know some pretty stupid 'adults' doing stupid things and acting in stupid ways----

I think a lot of it is just experience in the given area.

And teenagers have much less experience.

 

[DaveC426913]

I've know some pretty stupid 'adults' doing stupid things and acting in stupid ways----

I think you're missing the point though. Adults are allowed to do stupid things that get them killed. Minors are not. Minors have parents who are responsible for ensuring (with a reasonable margin) that the kids don't do stupid things to get them killed.

 

[rewebster]

I think you're missing the point though. Adults are allowed to do stupid things that get them killed. Minors are not. Minors have parents who are responsible for ensuring (with a reasonable margin) that the kids don't do stupid things to get them killed.

and some minors are a lot more responsible than some adults...


and it takes a certain knowledge about certain minors from those parents who recognise the responsibility in their minors.


I think most adults (us) don't meet or run into teens/minors that are that way---they're busy and not in 'our' circle normally

 

[DaveC426913]

and some minors are a lot more responsible than some adults...

True, but the law is the law. Or at least, many people feel that age trumps ability.

and it takes a certain knowledge about certain minors from those parents who recognise the responsibility in their minors.

Yes, this is how I feel. If we always held children back from big risks, we would have no child prodigies. Some people just break the mold before they've lived on the planet for 18 years.

 

[Evo]

and some minors are a lot more responsible than some adults...


and it takes a certain knowledge about certain minors from those parents who recognise the responsibility in their minors.


I think most adults (us) don't meet or run into teens/minors that are that way---they're busy and not in 'our' circle normally

But as many professional sailors have said, these kids DO NOT have EXPERIENCE on the high seas. As was said, they should first sail these areas as an aprentice, THEN they can try it on their own, if they did well on previous voyages. They should not be going from sailing in calm waters close to shore to circumnavigating the globe.

 

[DaveC426913]

But as many professional sailors have said, these kids DO NOT have EXPERIENCE on the high seas.

If that's the case, then the risk has nothing to do with their age; an inexperienced sailor is an inexperienced sailor.

 

[rewebster]

But as many professional sailors have said, these kids DO NOT have EXPERIENCE on the high seas. As was said, they should first sail these areas as an aprentice, THEN they can try it on their own, if they did well on previous voyages. They should not be going from sailing in calm waters close to shore to circumnavigating the globe.

so, you're saying if she was eighteen, it would be OK?

She could have more experience on the water than Noah for all I/we know.


edit: and most parents hold back daughters a lot more than they hold back their sons.

Evo, you have a brother, right? I bet it seemed like he got to do more...


Edit:---I wonder if 'she' would have been a 'he' if this thread would be different...

 

[Evo]

If that's the case, then the risk has nothing to do with their age; an inexperienced sailor is an inexperienced sailor.

Inexperience and young age. Kids that age think they are immortal. They don't have enough life experience, no matter how "mature", combine that with a gross lack of experience with the type of sailing experience needed to sail around the world. I've really got to question what these parents are thinking.

 

[Gokul43201]

Well first of all, you don't know much about me or whether I have any sailing experience,

I never said anything specifically about you. You are reading words that aren't there. But regardless, no one in this thread has yet demonstrated any deep knowledge of competitive trans-ocean sailing.

...but second, you act as if I'm pulling this out of thin air or that true experts in the field don't share such an opinion. But such opinions are easy to find: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Watson#cite_ref-Tyler2009-11_29-0

Again, she collided with a container ship! She demonstrated her insufficient experience!

Switching goalposts. And you've bolded the wrong words: "She demonstrated her insufficient experience!" Your posts were not about a specific person but about parents of teenage record breakers in general, therefore not based on the insufficient experience of a specific person.

So I stand by my position:
1. The risk is not worth the reward - it is a bad idea.

The risk is clearly dependent on ability, which varies from person to person. If this is intended as a blanket statement about all teenagers/parents, it is meaningless.

 

[DaveC426913]

Now that I read the story, I can see a serious problem:

The record is to be the youngest. The parameters of the self-made contest directly compete with gaining experience.

A 40 year old sailor can make his round the world attempt when he's 40, or 41, or scuttle it and do it when he's 42. Whatever he needs to ensure he maximizes his chances.

A 17 year old trying to be the youngest MUST go NOW, not NEXT year, not when the storm season abates, and most critically: not when they're sure their skills are up to it, but NOW.

So, they are DIRECTLY compromising their readiness.

And THAT's foolhardy.

 

[stevenb]

I have a different moral concern with sending kids out into an open ocean like this. I wonder if it's right to place rescue people in a position where they might have to rescue, or even worse fail to rescue, a child. How much more risk will they be driven to take in a resue attempt? How much more guilt will they live with if they fail?

I wonder because personally I would have no trouble leaving a stupid rich adult dare-devil to his own fate if the risk of a rescue attempt went beyond a certain point. However, a young, brave girl following her dream would evoke different emotions. I might be willing to die to try and save her, both because I admire her and because I would not want to live with the guilt of leaving her to perish.

I can imagine the outrage some people will feel if a young girl does eventually die in one of these stunts. But, how much more outrage will there be if, in addition, a rescue plane or boat goes down while trying to save her?

 

[rewebster]

should 16 year olds NOT drive cars then?

Look at the number of teens that are involved in accidents.

Should 16 year olds NOT be allowed to go into the 'Big City' by themselves?

Should it be the law that 16 year olds can't go to college because their too immature and lack the experience of being in such a immoral playground?

 

[DaveC426913]

should 16 year olds NOT drive cars then?

Look at the number of teens that are involved in accidents.

Should 16 year olds NOT be allowed to go into the 'Big City' by themselves?

Should it be the law that 16 year olds can't go to college because their too immature and lack the experience of being in such a immoral playground?

It is generally accpeted that learning to drive a car is something that can reasonably be done in a 16 yr old's world. Any 16 yr old's world.

It is generally accepted that making a round the world trip single-handed requires decade(s) of specialized experience.

This girl may be able to do it, but it is because she (unlike all her friends) is exceptional.

 

[rootX]

It is generally accpeted that learning to drive a car is something that can reasonably be done in a 16 yr old's world. Any 16 yr old's world.

It is generally accepted that making a round the world trip single-handed requires decade(s) of specialized experience.

This girl may be able to do it, but it is because she (unlike all her friends) is exceptional.

All or most people think they are exceptional.

All or most parents think that their kids are exceptional.

 

[lisab]

They've found the missing 16-year-old...alive:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/11/missing.teen.sailor/index.html?hpt=T3

The mast has been broken but the boat is not taking on water.

Veeeery lucky girl.

 

[Evo]

That is such a relief.

 

[Monique]

It is generally accpeted that learning to drive a car is something that can reasonably be done in a 16 yr old's world. Any 16 yr old's world.

I don't mean to drag it off topic, but it is not in Any 16 yr old's world. Many countries have the legal driving age at 18 years old, because they find the average 16 year old too immature. If I understand it correctly the minimal driving age in New Jersey is 18 years as well.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Is this a new trend? Are we going to start having to waste resources on rescuing kids getting stranded in the middle of the ocean?
I say if you take a boat out into the middle of the OCEAN, you deserve to be left there if you get stranded.
If I one day build a rocket and fly to the moon and I can't get back, which I plan to do one day, I don't expect anyone to come get me.

I also think this is putting children in danger and the parents should be punished.

 

[Astronuc]

Is this a new trend? Are we going to start having to waste resources on rescuing kids getting stranded in the middle of the ocean?

Apparently this is a recent trend - kids setting the 'youngest' to ______ record. Abby's brother Zac circumnavigated the world in a sailboat last year.
http://www.zacsunderland.com/

I say if you take a boat out into the middle of the OCEAN, you deserve to be left there if you get stranded.

Some would agree, some not.

If I one day build a rocket and fly to the moon and I can't get back, which I plan to do one day, I don't expect anyone to come get me.

Best to make $25 million and pay for trip to ISS. The moon is more complicated - and much more expensive. Calculate the GJ required and multiply by the $/J necessary.

I also think this is putting children in danger and the parents should be punished.

If there is a criminal violation, certainly. If someone put up the funds to rescue Abby, then they can certainly sue/fine the parents.


It was irresponsible/reckless to attempt the southern ocean this time of year in that kind of boat.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

If someone put up the funds to rescue Abby, then they can certainly sue/fine the parents.

The Australians aren't charging for their air patrols. I don't know if the French will charge for their sea rescue. (See my link in my "Abby Sutherland's adventure" post. Russ Watters locked it because of this thread. I didn't recognize Jessica Watson's name.)

It was irresponsible/reckless to attempt the southern ocean this time of year in that kind of boat.

Indeed. My particular peeve is that three French ships are on the way to rescue Abby. They hope to reach Abby's location sometime on Saturday June 12 GMT. I don't know how many personnel have been mobilized for the rescue, but they are risking their lives. This is very worst place to be at sea in June. The Antarctic convergence is furthest north a bit west of Abby's location, meaning the potential for particularly nasty winter storms. Couple this with the fact she is completely alone, unlike Jessica, and you have the makings of a potential maritime tragedy. I only hope nothing goes wrong with the rescue.

 

[Chaballa]

Jessica Watson's parents must be Very rich if they can afford to send their 16 year old daughter to sail around the world. Even that yacht alone would cost more than ten Ferrari 458..

Maybe Bill Gates can send his kids to become the world's first solo astronaut to the moon. I don't see much point tho..

 

[SW VandeCarr]

Abby Sutherland was rescued this morning (6/12 GMT) by a French fishing vessel. The captain fell into the water but was also rescued. (AP story on the Yahoo Homepage)

 

[leroyjenkens]

Abby Sutherland was rescued this morning (6/12 GMT) by a French fishing vessel. The captain fell into the water but was also rescued. (AP story on the Yahoo Homepage)

That's kinda funny. That's like getting something stuck in a tree and then throwing something else up there to knock it down, and then that thing gets stuck too.

 

[Proton Soup]

I don't mean to drag it off topic, but it is not in Any 16 yr old's world. Many countries have the legal driving age at 18 years old, because they find the average 16 year old too immature. If I understand it correctly the minimal driving age in New Jersey is 18 years as well.

in alabama, i had a learner's permit at 15, and was driving at 16 unsupervised. for a motorcycle, i could have received a license at 14. in mississippi, my cousins were driving legally at [STRIKE]14[/STRIKE]15, and some not so legally a few years before that.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

That's kinda funny. That's like getting something stuck in a tree and then throwing something else up there to knock it down, and then that thing gets stuck too.

It could have been much worse, and it's not over yet. As I've been saying, the region south of latitude 40 S between Africa and Australia is called the "Roaring Forties" for a good reason. The rescue vessels are not secure until they reach a safe port. There's no sane reason why anyone should be down there in the winter months in any kind of vessel unless it's absolutely necessary.

 

[Evo]

I find this disgusting.

Turns out that this stunt was for a reality tv show.

As Abby Sunderland spends her last day aboard a French fishing boat whose crew rescued her from a disabled sailboat and is ferrying her to an island in the Indian Ocean, criticism of her parents has intensified regarding -- most recently -- the high cost of the rescue and their involvement in a TV reality show.

http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/blog/18016/stormy+seas+take+on+new+meaning+in+abby+sunderland+saga/

 

[rootX]

I find this disgusting.

Turns out that this stunt was for a reality tv show.
http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/blog/18016/stormy+seas+take+on+new+meaning+in+abby+sunderland+saga/

These reality shows are full of nonsense, and I don't understand people's fascination with these kind of shows.

 

[DaveC426913]

These reality shows are full of nonsense, and I don't understand people's fascination with these kind of shows.

I do. As our lives become more and more secure, what we do to entertain ourselves can become more and more frivolous. I remember the scene from Fahrenheit 451 where Montag's wife would watch her soap operas and bawl her eyes out. It seemed incongruous considering the hell Montag was going through, but I realized that the stability of her world acted to define her leisure activities.

People watch stupid, useless TV because they can. And they don't need to defend their choices to anyone.

 

[Borg]

Next.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/7913481/Dutch-girl-Laura-Dekker-wins-fight-to-sail-round-world-profile.html"

 

[rolerbe]

It was irresponsible/reckless to attempt the southern ocean this time of year in that kind of boat.

At any age.

 

[russ_watters]

At any age.

But when you have a reality tv deal to consider, you need to weigh your priorities.

reality TV deal > my daughter's life