Undergrad Just below first inaccessible cardinal

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the concept of the "height" of towers of cardinals, particularly in relation to first inaccessible cardinals and their notation. The participants explore whether adding more levels to the cardinal structure, such as \aleph_{\aleph_{\aleph_...}}, introduces new cardinalities or if they can be represented using single-level notation. The conversation also touches on defining functions from ordinals to ordinals, specifically through the function f(x) = Ω^x, and the implications of fixed points in this context.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of cardinal numbers and their hierarchy, particularly first inaccessible cardinals.
  • Familiarity with ordinal numbers and their properties.
  • Knowledge of functions and fixed points in mathematical analysis.
  • Basic comprehension of set theory and transfinite numbers.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the properties of first inaccessible cardinals and their significance in set theory.
  • Learn about the function f(x) = Ω^x and its implications for ordinal numbers.
  • Explore the concept of fixed points in the context of ordinal functions.
  • Investigate the notation and implications of multilevel cardinals in set theory.
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Mathematicians, logicians, and students of set theory who are interested in advanced concepts of cardinality and ordinal functions.

tzimie
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First inaccessible is "above" all \aleph_0, \aleph_{\aleph_0}, \aleph_{\aleph_{\aleph_0}} etc.

My question is what is the "height" of that tower, can it be not only infinite, but also as huge as \aleph_{\aleph_{\aleph_...}} \big\} \aleph_{\aleph_0} so the height of the tower is defined by another huge cardinal?

Does adding more levels to that structure (cardinal defines the height of a tower of another cardinal, which defines the height a tower on level 2, etc)

\aleph_{\aleph_{\aleph_...}} \big\} \aleph_{\aleph_{\aleph_...}} \big\} \aleph_{\aleph_0}

bring anything new, or any "multilevel" cardinal can be defined as using a single level notation?
 
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tzimie said:
First inaccessible is "above" all \aleph_0, \aleph_{\aleph_0}, \aleph_{\aleph_{\aleph_0}} etc.

My question is what is the "height" of that tower, can it be not only infinite, but also as huge as \aleph_{\aleph_{\aleph_...}} \big\} \aleph_{\aleph_0} so the height of the tower is defined by another huge cardinal?
I don't know about the notation using the symbol N0, N1, N2 etc. This cardinality topic is somewhat beyond my knowledge. Probably someone more knowledgeable and/or comfortable with this topic can give a better response (hopefully my response doesn't contain some major inaccuracy). But nevertheless, still here is my thought on it.

I think it should make sense. Simply thinking about it in terms of Ω (first uncountable). Let's write Ω as Ω0. Let's simply define a function f (from ordinals to ordinals I guess?) such as:
f(x)=Ωx=x-th uncountable ordinal

Now assuming that the fixed points for this function work in the same way as for countable ordinals (f should be a normal function), we have its first fixed point as the supremum of (fn denotes composition of f n times):
A={f(0),f2(0),f3(0),f4(0),...}

And this essentially corresponds the "height" of the tower you described being equal to ω. If we then denote g as the function enumerating fixed points of f, then we can also write something like:
g(ΩΩ0)=g(f2(0))
it essentially corresponds to the term in quote above. Only sort of ... I think(?) because N0 is equal to ω and N1 is equal to Ω?. In that case we can just write: g(Ωω).
 
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