Kaluza Klein and non-abelian gauge transformation

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter LCSphysicist
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Klein
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Kaluza-Klein theory, specifically focusing on non-abelian gauge transformations and the contributions of Bryce de Witt. Participants explore the mathematical formulations and implications of these theories, comparing historical research periods and the evolution of ideas in the field.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a mathematical derivation related to the Kaluza-Klein metric and non-abelian gauge transformations, questioning the correctness of their assumptions regarding certain terms.
  • Another participant expresses curiosity about the initial phrasing of a text, suggesting it implies prior knowledge from the author, and notes a historical context regarding Kaluza-Klein research from the 1980s compared to earlier studies.
  • A later reply humorously acknowledges language barriers and the use of tools for text correction, while also contributing to the discussion about the clarity of communication in technical contexts.
  • Another participant identifies the main question of the thread as concerning de Witt's role in non-abelian Kaluza-Klein theories and how these differ from Witten's models, indicating a focus on theoretical distinctions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and curiosity about the historical and theoretical aspects of Kaluza-Klein theories, with no clear consensus on the correctness of the mathematical formulations or the implications of de Witt's contributions.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the mathematical expressions and the potential for differing interpretations of the roles of various theorists in the development of Kaluza-Klein theories.

LCSphysicist
Messages
644
Reaction score
163
TL;DR
Under a special type of coordinate transformation, the KK reduce metric transforms such that a non-abelian gauge vector appears. How?
Here's your text with the changes you requested:

The Kaluza-Klein metric, by reduction, can be written as a ##(4+m) \times (4+m)##symmetric matrix, where ##m## is the dimension of the additional spacetime (if we decompose ##M_D = M_4 \times M_m##). It was show by Bryce de. Witt that, if the non-diagonal metric has the form

$$g_{\mu m} = B^I_{\mu}(x^{\nu}) V^I_m(y^n)$$

And we make a general coordinate transformation

$$\epsilon_m = \lambda^I (x^{\nu}) V_m^I(y^n)$$

We can show that ##\lambda## is the parameter of a non-abelian gauge transformation of ##B_{\mu}##. While every source talks about de Witt derivation, i was not able to find it, indeed, the citations used are not open (B.S. DeWitt, In Relativity, Groups and Topology, eds. C. and B.S. DeWitt (Gordon and Breach, New York, 1964). So i have tried to show it here

$$
\delta g_{rs} = \epsilon^m \partial_m g_{rs} + \partial_{r} \epsilon^m g_{m s} + \partial_s \epsilon^m g_{m s}
$$

$r = \mu, s = n$

$$
\delta g_{\mu n} = \lambda V^{m} \partial_m g_{\mu n} + \partial_{\mu} \lambda V^m g_{mn} + \lambda \partial_n V^m g_{m \mu}
$$

$g_{\mu n} = B_{\mu} V_n$, $g_{mn} = \delta_{mn}$

$$
\delta g_{\mu n} = \delta B_{\mu} V_n + B_{\mu} \delta V_{n} = \lambda B_{\mu} V^m \partial_m V_n + V_n \partial_{\mu} \lambda + \lambda B_{\mu} \partial_n V^m V_m
$$

But ##\delta V_n## is ##0## (honestly, i am just assuming it). Also, i assumed that ##\partial_m V_n V^n = V^n \partial_m V_n##

$$
\delta B_{\mu} V_n = \lambda B_{\mu} V^m \partial_m V_n + V_n \partial_{\mu} \lambda + \lambda B_{\mu} V_m \partial_n V^m
$$

This, in fact, reduces to a "looks like" non-gauge transformation

$$
\delta B_{\mu} = \partial_{\mu} \lambda + (V_n^{-1} V_m \partial_m V_n + V_n^{-1} V_m \partial_n V^m ) \lambda B_{\mu}
$$

But i am not really sure if it is correct. I mean, the term in parenthesis shouldn't be something like $~f$, the structure constant of some group rep?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Hmm I am intrigued by the initial " Here's your text with the changes you requested:" Does it mean that the IA had all this info?

Usually KK non abelian refers to a short burst of research between 1981 and 1986; the research in the sixties was more about quantised fields on curved spaces.
 
arivero said:
Hmm I am intrigued by the initial " Here's your text with the changes you requested:" Does it mean that the IA had all this info?

Usually KK non abelian refers to a short burst of research between 1981 and 1986; the research in the sixties was more about quantised fields on curved spaces.

hahahaha oh! I am not a native english speaker, as probably you will notice with this message i am writing to you, so I generally write a text and puts on chatgpt so that it "corrects" the bad gramatic and maybe write it a little better. I mean, of course you can understand me, but it is embarassing to make english mistakes haha
 
The main question in this thread is "what is the role of De Witt in the formulation of non abelian kaliza Klein theories and how does this formulation differs of Witten's 'realistic kaluza Klein' models."

Wait for the next ChatGPT update to see if it gets some sensical answer.
 
  • Skeptical
Likes   Reactions: LCSphysicist

Similar threads

  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
5K