Kinetic energy of two particles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the kinetic energy of two particles, specifically an electron and a neutron, when exposed to light of a certain wavelength. Participants explore the relationship between the energy absorbed from the light and the resulting kinetic energy of the particles, considering both mathematical formulations and logical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that since both particles absorb the same amount of energy from light of the same wavelength, their kinetic energy should be the same, but notes a contradiction with the formula relating wavelength and kinetic energy.
  • Another participant argues that the de-Broglie wavelength of particles is not related to the wavelength of incoming light and states that isolated particles cannot absorb photons without further interaction, which would violate conservation laws.
  • A different participant clarifies that while the energy absorbed by both particles is the same, their associated wavelengths differ due to their different masses, leading to different kinetic energies.
  • One participant emphasizes that the scenario presented is unphysical, suggesting that absorption of light cannot be accurately described using the de-Broglie wave picture, and proposes considering scattering processes instead.
  • Another participant notes that elastic scattering of photons and neutrons is rare, indicating that the electron would receive more energy than the neutron in such interactions.
  • Additional information is provided regarding photo-neutron reactions, highlighting the conditions under which neutrons may interact with photons, although this is deemed potentially less relevant to the main question.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the physical feasibility of the scenario and the implications of energy absorption. There is no consensus on how to reconcile the mathematical and logical aspects of the problem, and multiple competing views remain regarding the interaction of light with the particles.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the assumptions made about isolated particles and the applicability of de-Broglie wavelength concepts to the scenario presented. The discussion also highlights unresolved aspects of energy conservation in the context of particle interactions with light.

Dexter Neutron
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If light of certain wavelength falls on two particles say electron and a neutron(isolated) then since they are absorbing the same amount of energy their kinetic energy must be same.

But using the formula:
$$ \lambda = \frac{h}{\sqrt{2mE}} $$
we get
$$ E = \frac{h^2}{2m \lambda^2}$$
which states us that for same wavelength kinetic energy varies inversly with mass thus neutron would have less kinetic energy than electron mathematically but logical approach states that for same wavelength of light falling on both, they absorb same amount of energy thus kinetic energy must be same.

Why mathematical and logical aspects are not giving the same result?
 
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The (de-Broglie) wavelength of particles (=your formula) has nothing to do with the wavelength of incoming light.

Isolated particles cannot absorb photons without any further interaction, this would violate energy or momentum conservation.
 
Your question is very interesting, let's analise it.

First, we have the De Broglie's equation:
$$λ=\frac{h}{p}=\frac{h}{mv}=\frac{h}{\sqrt{2mE}}$$
but this equation tells you the wavelength associated to a particle (in this particular case they are an electron and a neutron). So if you impress these particles with photons of frecuency ##f## the particles will have the same energy ##E=hf=h\frac{c}{λ}##, but they will have different wavelength associated, (their masses are different). Furthermore, the wavelength of the photons is not the wavelegth of the particles.
Hence, the energy absorbed is the same, but the wavelegth acquired by each particle is different:
$$E_e=E_n,\frac{h^2}{2m_e \lambda_e^2}=\frac{h^2}{2m_n \lambda_n^2},m_e \lambda_e^2=m_n \lambda_n^2$$

A similar situation in Newtonian mechanics to this situation would be as follows:

If you gives the same energy to two bodies of different masses ##M>>m## the body with mass ##m## will get a higher velocity than the mass of ##M## and it seems it has more energy. However, both have the same.
 
mfb said:
Isolated particles cannot absorb photons without any further interaction, this would violate energy or momentum conservation.

i think the above position is correct vis-a-vis the problem posed - its a unphysical situation and absorption of light is not possible through de broglie wave picture of the particles.
further one can apply scattering process to the two cases and can calculate the energy shared by electron and neutron using coservation of energy and momentum and in that case my guess is that neutron may not share the photon energy much
should be much less than the electron case.

Julano said:
Furthermore, the wavelength of the photons is not the wavelegth of the particles.
Hence, the energy absorbed is the same, but the wavelegth acquired by each particle is different:
well i can not figure out the above process.
 
Elastic scattering of photons and neutrons is incredibly rare - it is called neutron for a good reason. Inelastic scattering has a reasonable cross-section, but then we get new particles.
For elastic scattering, the electron will get more energy than a neutron, sure.
 
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mfb said:
Elastic scattering of photons and neutrons is incredibly rare

agreed

some additional info -may not be very relevant to the question
Photo neutron reactions
• Photon brings enough energy to drive reaction.
• Photo neutron sources emit mono energetic neutrons ( if a single energy photon comes in)
. • Requires photons of > several MeV.

ref;http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/nuclear-engineering/22-01-introduction-to-ionizing-radiation-fall-2006/lecture-notes/energy_dep_neutr.pdf
 
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