Know Your English: Can "It's" Be Used to Signify Ownership?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the usage of "it's" versus "its" in the context of signifying ownership, as well as the capitalization of the word "english." Participants explore grammatical rules and etymological origins, with some delving into related topics such as language conventions and historical anecdotes.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that "it's" should not be used to signify ownership, stating that the possessive form is "its" without an apostrophe.
  • Others emphasize that "it's" always means "it is," reinforcing the grammatical rule against its use for possession.
  • One participant questions the capitalization of "english," suggesting that it should be capitalized, while another raises a specific case regarding its use in sports terminology.
  • A participant shares an anecdote about the etymology of "english" in relation to billiards, referencing the OED and etymological sources.
  • There is a playful exchange about the rules of capitalization and the implications of the etymological story shared.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the grammatical rule that "it's" should not be used to signify ownership, but there is some playful disagreement regarding the capitalization of "english" and its contextual usage.

Contextual Notes

Discussions about the etymology of terms and their usage in different contexts remain unresolved, with participants expressing uncertainty about specific rules and historical origins.

Blahness
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Okay, quick question.

Can the word "it's" be used to signify ownership?

e.g.

"To argue whether or not secularisation is occurring, or has occurred, in our society today one must first define religion itself, then define secularisation- how influential is it now, compared to that of the past, and finally define it's significance."

Would this be proper usage, or must it be used without an apostrophe despite signifying property or ownage?
 
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The way I learned is that the possessive form of it is "its" without an apostrophe, so that "it's" with an apostrophe is always it is.
 
J77 and d_leet are correct unequivocally.
 
It's a rule! Follow its dictates!
 
For completeness, "english" should be written with a capital letter.
 
brewnog said:
For completeness, "english" should be written with a capital letter.
Even when used for the spin on a tennis ball or ping-pong ball?
 
berkeman said:
Even when used for the spin on a tennis ball or ping-pong ball?


Ooh interesting one. I suspect not, though I don't know the etymology of this use. Anyone?
 
brewnog said:
Ooh interesting one. I suspect not, though I don't know the etymology of this use. Anyone?

I had a look at the OED, doesn't which say much about its origin. It did give a second-hand (or more) apocryphal-sounding story about an English pool player named English coming to the U.S., with english being named after him.

I then found the website of the http://www.etymonline.com/index.php" , which states

English (2) (Look up English at Dictionary.com)
"spin imparted to a ball" (as in billiards), 1860, from Fr. anglé "angled," which is similar to Anglais "English."
 
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  • #10
Excellent! Thanks George, that's a much more rational explanation.

I don't know what the rule would be now regarding capitalisation; if the ambiguity is all in the French language, and your story is the truth, I don't see how you could get away without spelling English with a capital E. But I don't know!
 
  • #11
brewnog said:
For completeness, "english" should be written with a capital letter.
Okay, but which one?

Edit : Nevermind. I see you anticipated the extent of my illiteracy in your subsequent post.
 
  • #12
brewnog said:
Excellent! Thanks George, that's a much more rational explanation.
Agreed. Good one, George.

brewnog said:
if the ambiguity is all in the French language... ...I don't see how you could get away without spelling English with a capital E.
Actually, if it's from the French it would be spelled with a capital 'A'. :-p
 

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