Law of Supply vs Law of Remuneration

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of the Law of Supply and the Law of Remuneration, particularly in the context of how changes in hourly wages affect the number of hours worked. Participants explore the apparent contradictions between these two laws and their implications in labor economics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that an increase in hourly wages leads to an increase in the willingness to work more hours, aligning with the Law of Supply.
  • Others argue that higher wages allow individuals to work fewer hours while maintaining the same income, which they describe as the Law of Remuneration.
  • A participant challenges the existence of a "law of supply," suggesting that it should be framed as "supply and demand," and questions the validity of the terminology used.
  • There is a mathematical inquiry regarding the change in the sign of the derivative \(\frac{dS}{dY}\) at a critical wage rate, with some participants seeking an explanation related to utility maximization.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of these laws in real-world scenarios, particularly regarding salaried versus hourly workers and the influence of employers on hours worked.
  • Some participants suggest that the utility derived from work may not solely depend on hours worked but also on other factors such as wages, purpose, and social relations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the Laws of Supply and Remuneration, with multiple competing views remaining unresolved throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions and implications of the laws discussed, particularly in relation to mathematical expressions and real-world applications. The discussion highlights the complexity of labor economics and the factors influencing work hours.

Bipolarity
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If prices increase, supply will increase. This is the Law of Supply. So if your hourly wage were suddenly increased, then according to this law, you'd be willing to work more hours because each of those hours suddenly offers you more income. Because the higher wage has made working more valuable, you decide to work more hours.

But consider this: if your hourly wage were increased, you are now able to make the same amount of money working fewer hours. You exploit this to your advantage, and decide to work fewer hours, spending the rest on leisure, since you still make the same total salary as before. This is the Law of Remuneration.

The two laws are both logical yet they contradict one another, thus they cannot be both right at the same time. Which law is correct and why?

I've been studying this for a while and it turns out that both laws are right, but at different times.
Labour_supply_small.png


But why? What is the point at which the laws neutralize each other?

BiP
 
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Bipolarity said:
If prices increase, supply will increase. This is the Law of Supply. So if your hourly wage were suddenly increased, then according to this law, you'd be willing to work more hours because each of those hours suddenly offers you more income. Because the higher wage has made working more valuable, you decide to work more hours.

But consider this: if your hourly wage were increased, you are now able to make the same amount of money working fewer hours. You exploit this to your advantage, and decide to work fewer hours, spending the rest on leisure, since you still make the same total salary as before. This is the Law of Remuneration.

The two laws are both logical yet they contradict one another, thus they cannot be both right at the same time. Which law is correct and why?

I've been studying this for a while and it turns out that both laws are right, but at different times.
Labour_supply_small.png


But why? What is the point at which the laws neutralize each other?

BiP
There is no such thing as a "law of supply". It's "supply and demand". Reference to a "law of supply" is BS.

Even this website contradicts itself although it states
(Economists do not really have a “law” of supply, though they talk and write as though they do.)

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Supply.html

Sigh, so much garbage on the internet.
 
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Evo said:
There is no such thing as a "law of supply". It's "supply and demand". Reference to a "law of supply" is BS.

Even this website contradicts itself although it states

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Supply.html

Sigh, so much garbage on the internet.

OK then mathematically why is it that
\frac{dS}{dY} change sign at some value of Y where Y is the wage rate and S is the number of hours worked?

BiP
 
Bipolarity said:
OK then mathematically why is it that
\frac{dS}{dY} change sign at some value of Y where Y is the wage rate and S is the number of hours worked?

BiP
The number of hours worked is dictated by the employer, not the employee. There is no such thing as a "Law of remuneration". Please post a link to a reputable source.
 
Evo said:
The number of hours worked is dictated by the employer, not the employee. There is no such thing as a "Law of remuneration". Please post a link to a reputable source.

I do not have links sorry as I use a textbook. My text uses the term to describe the situation in labor economics where \frac{dS}{dY} is negative. It is "Introductory Economics" by the British author G.F. Stanlake. Chapter 3 of the fifth edition describes this law. In any case my question is not so much about the terminology but rather I am looking for an explanation of why the sign of \frac{dS}{dY} changes at a critical value of Y.

It has something to do with utility maximization but I do not understand why. For instance, if you increase the hourly wage, then the marginal utility of working can only increase, thus hours worked can only be expected to increase. I see no reason for the marginal utility of working to decrease as the wage rate goes up.

BiP
 
Bipolarity said:
I do not have links sorry as I use a textbook. My text uses the term to describe the situation in labor economics where \frac{dS}{dY} is negative. It is "Introductory Economics" by the British author G.F. Stanlake. Chapter 3 of the fifth edition describes this law. In any case my question is not so much about the terminology but rather I am looking for an explanation of why the sign of \frac{dS}{dY} changes at a critical value of Y.

It has something to do with utility maximization but I do not understand why. For instance, if you increase the hourly wage, then the marginal utility of working can only increase, thus hours worked can only be expected to increase. I see no reason for the marginal utility of working to decrease as the wage rate goes up.

BiP
This is absolute nonsense in the real world, it just doesn't work that way. You do realize that most professionals are salaried and don't get paid by the hour? If you are an hourly worker, then your employer decides how many hours you work.

I don't find anything anywhere that backs up what you say, so perhaps you have misunderstood what the author is saying.
 
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Bipolarity said:
If prices increase, supply will increase. This is the Law of Supply. So if your hourly wage were suddenly increased, then according to this law, you'd be willing to work more hours because each of those hours suddenly offers you more income. Because the higher wage has made working more valuable, you decide to work more hours.

But consider this: if your hourly wage were increased, you are now able to make the same amount of money working fewer hours. You exploit this to your advantage, and decide to work fewer hours, spending the rest on leisure, since you still make the same total salary as before. This is the Law of Remuneration.

The two laws are both logical yet they contradict one another, thus they cannot be both right at the same time. Which law is correct and why?

I've been studying this for a while and it turns out that both laws are right, but at different times.
Labour_supply_small.png


But why? What is the point at which the laws neutralize each other?

BiP

If changes are gradual, would you ever get to the top part of the curve? At the far right point of the curve the marginal cost of labour is infinite. Production stops when marginal cost equals marginal revenue. The second point I think is what Evo is alluding to. A person’s hourly rate may depend on the amount of hours they work. A company may not be willing to pay a part time employee as much because the company may want to fully utilize office resources. For instance, say office space was short. The company would have to consider how practical it was for part time employees to share a desk. Your scenario is plausible I think if someone’s skills are very hard for the company to come by. In that case then maybe they would be more willing to hire them on a part time basis.
 
Bipolarity said:
I see no reason for the marginal utility of working to decrease as the wage rate goes up.

BiP

In most cases I think it is not the work that brings the utility but what a person gains from the work. For instance: wages, purpose, social relations, etc. When calculating marginal utility don’t use hours worked as your dependent variable.
 
Bipolarity said:
If prices increase, supply will increase. This is the Law of Supply. So if your hourly wage were suddenly increased, then according to this law, you'd be willing to work more hours because each of those hours suddenly offers you more income. Because the higher wage has made working more valuable, you decide to work more hours.

But consider this: if your hourly wage were increased, you are now able to make the same amount of money working fewer hours. You exploit this to your advantage, and decide to work fewer hours, spending the rest on leisure, since you still make the same total salary as before. This is the Law of Remuneration.

The two laws are both logical yet they contradict one another, thus they cannot be both right at the same time. Which law is correct and why?

I've been studying this for a while and it turns out that both laws are right, but at different times.
Labour_supply_small.png


But why? What is the point at which the laws neutralize each other?

BiP

They aren't laws but income and substitution effect. Check
 
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