Legal status of persons without a birth certificate

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the legal status of individuals who do not possess a birth certificate or any form of identification. It explores the implications of lacking official documentation in different countries, particularly focusing on Eastern Europe and the United States.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the legal status of individuals without any documentation, emphasizing the lack of records of birth.
  • One participant notes that in their country, individuals without birth registration and papers are not considered citizens.
  • Another participant raises the question of how legal status is determined before any evidence is presented.
  • There is a suggestion that theoretically, rights are derived from citizenship rather than paperwork, but practical implications vary by country.
  • Some participants express that in the U.S., individuals born without documentation are extremely rare.
  • References to external sources indicate that there are individuals categorized as non-citizens, which may relate to the discussion on legal status.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the legal status of individuals without documentation, and multiple competing views remain regarding the implications in different countries.

Contextual Notes

The discussion is influenced by varying legal frameworks across countries, and the implications of citizenship and documentation are not universally agreed upon.

DirkMan
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What is the legal status of persons without a birth certificate and any kind of ID ?
 
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DirkMan said:
What is the legal status of persons without a birth certificate and any kind of ID ?
You mean it doesn't exist or you simply don't have a copy on hand?
 
The papers don't exist. There isn't any record of their birth, and have absolutely no papers. And at least in my country, there are quite a lot of them.
 
DirkMan said:
The papers don't exist. There isn't any record of their birth, and have absolutely no papers. And at least in my country, there are quite a lot of them.
What country? That is greatly relevant.
 
In Eastern Europe. I was asking more about the people in America, cause apparently the people in my country who arent registered at birth and have no papers, they arent citizens of this country.
 
DirkMan said:
In Eastern Europe. I was asking more about the people in America, cause apparently the people in my country who arent registered at birth and have no papers, they arent citizens of this country.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/passports/information/secondary-evidence.html
 
Last edited:
Ok, but I'm asking about the legal status before they present any kind of evidence, that is if they have evidence or want to present evidence.
 
DirkMan said:
What is the legal status of persons without a birth certificate and any kind of ID ?
Theoretically unchanged. Your rights (in theory) are not derived from having paperwork done properly, but from being a citizen. Of course to prove that you are citizen...

For all practical reasons, this answer is country specific.
 
I think in the U.S., at this time, a person who was born here but had no documentation of it would be an extreme rarity.
 
  • #11
DirkMan said:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/02/new-york-city-non-citizens-local-elections

http://www.immihelp.com/immigration/us-national.html

http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/certificates-of-non-citizen-nationality.html

So there really are quite a lot of them and they're called non-citizens. Interesting.
I thought you were asking about people who had no birth certificate or any kind of I.D. So, actually all you wanted to know was the legal status of people who live here but aren't citizens.
 

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