LHC Restart in Sept - How Long Before We Get Results?

[Pupil]

So the LHC is set to kick back on in September. How long will it be before we get results? How long do you think it will be before we find something new (if we do find something)? I remember hearing someone (I think my physics teacher) saying that it would be a few years before we get any real results to work with.

 

[JasonRox]

I think it will fail again and we will wait another year.

 

[Topher925]

I think it will fail again and we will wait another year.

Ditto. Then fail again after that.

 

[humanino]

if we do find something

We will. We have very good reasons to think so. The machine was built to reach the electroweak breaking scale and all the rest is speculation.

 

[humanino]

I think it will fail again and we will wait another year.

It's great but Jason, not every place is like Canada.

 

[Pupil]

But, supposing it doesn't fail, how long will it take before we get word of an actual result? How long before we hear "Hey, we found the Higgs!" or "Look! X is happening!" or "Panic! Black hole!"?

 

[humanino]

"Panic! Black hole!"?

Approximately the age of the universe times the number of neutrinos in the visible universe time the number of words you need to read before you will convince yourself it can not happen.

Otherwise, physics results will begin publication by one or two years of data (that's not calendar days), and maybe three if we're unlucky with the parameters Nature chose.

 

[arunma]

I too would be interested to know what goes into analyzing LHC data. I work in a different area of HEP (particle astrophysics). I personally haven't started analyzing data yet, but the older grad student in my group usually seems to take a month or so between getting new data and deriving the spectrum for some source. I'd assume it's faster in regular HEP, since those guys have much more data they can work with, but I don't know how data analysis works for them.

 

[ZapperZ]

We received this last week from CERN concerning the LHC update:

Preparing for the re-start

The end of a Council week is a good opportunity to bring you up to date with the status of the LHC, and I'm pleased to say that we had a good deal of positive news to report to the delegations today. The bottom line is that we remain on course to restart the LHC safely this year, albeit currently about 2-3 weeks later than we'd hoped at Chamonix.

This Council week has seen many important developments for our future. I am particularly pleased that Council approved the Medium Term Plan and budget for 2010 as presented by the management. This is a strong vote of confidence in all of you. The President of Council is reporting on Council business in this issue of the Bulletin, so I will focus on the status of the LHC.

A tremendous amount of work has been done to understand fully the splices in the LHC's superconducting cable and copper stabilizers. One of these splices was the root cause of the incident last September that brought the LHC to a standstill. We've learned a great deal since then. It's mostly good news but there's also plenty of food for thought. The good news is that all the measurements done so far indicate that we will be ready by September or October to run the LHC safely in the range 4-5 TeV per beam. The food for thought is that the same tests tell us that before we can run safely above 5 TeV, more work is needed. This will be carried out in future shutdown periods.

Many of you will have heard, or seen on the LHC web pages, that we're warming up sector 4-5. This will give us increased confidence that we fully understand the splices. We're warming up this sector because we have developed a new non-invasive technique for investigating the splices. The sector has been measured at a temperature of 80 K, indicating at least one suspect splice. By warming the sector, the results of the test can be checked at room temperature, allowing us to confirm the reliability of the test at 80 K. If the 80 K measurements are confirmed, any suspect splices in this sector will be repaired. More importantly, validation of the 80K measurements will allow the splice resistance in the last three sectors to be measured at this temperature, thereby avoiding the time needed for re-warming. When these measurements are done, we'll have to balance energy against time: 4 TeV should require no further repairs, for example, whereas 5 TeV could call for more work. The measurements in these last three sectors will allow us to make that decision, determining the initial operating energy of the LHC in the range 4-5 TeV, and the start date for the first run.

The Bulletin will continue to keep you up to date with LHC progress, and if you are interested in a full report, Steve Myers at CERN and Jim Strait at Fermilab will be making detailed presentations on 2 July. Steve's presentation will be webcast at http://www.cern.ch/webcast.

Zz.

 

[George Jones]

We received this last week from CERN concerning the LHC update:
Zz.

This seems to say that there was/is a systematic problem with the splices, and that the problem last fall was not just a one-off.

 

[coverme]

LHC , the name makes my memory strike that the German scientist failed for what they claim for the formation of black holes and would be dangerous,which definitely didnot happen

 

[ZapperZ]

This seems to say that there was/is a systematic problem with the splices, and that the problem last fall was not just a one-off.

That's why it is down for so long. I've been told that they had to go into other sectors because the same thing was done with the others. Some repairs and re-installations were also done in those unaffected sectors during this downtime.

Zz.

 

[Vanadium 50]

This seems to say that there was/is a systematic problem with the splices, and that the problem last fall was not just a one-off.

Well, yes, and no. The worst splice was in Section 3-4. That's why it's not there anymore. After that, they have looked at other splices, and repaired/replaced a small number other ones that were not so bad.

The message from the DG is maybe a little confusing on one point. There are two separate things being called "splices". One is a superconductor-to-superconductor junction. That's what failed last year. There is also a copper-to-copper junction. Obviously these are separate problems.

 

[Pupil]

Three years, maybe? Good. The longer it takes them to get up and going and get some results, the more time I have to get through my undergrad physics degree to understand the results that will be announced.

I thought the LHC was supposed to operate at a maximum of 7 TeV. When will they get to these energy levels? How much more energy is 4 TeV than the current particle accelerators can generate?

 

[Vanadium 50]

How much more energy is 4 TeV than the current particle accelerators can generate?

Factor of 4.

 

[chaoseverlasting]

It would be great to have the LHC up and running... Perhaps we can have some useful results soon... Also, that report sounds straight out of a video game zz. Reminds me of Doom 3's PDA messages...

 

[JasonRox]

It's great but Jason, not every place is like Canada.

Yeah Canada is a great place. :!)
Too bad no other place is better.

 

[humanino]

Yeah Canada is a great place. :!)

For what I've seen, yes it was great indeed. I too, if I were living in Canada, would find no time to work