Linear ODE Systems in Numerical Methods.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conversion of second-order ordinary differential equations (ODEs) into matrix form for numerical methods, particularly in the context of using MATLAB. Participants explore different approaches to represent the equations and clarify the process of transforming higher-order ODEs into systems of first-order ODEs.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, Bill, seeks clarification on whether a matrix for a second-order ODE should consist of a particular solution in the top row and a homogeneous solution in the bottom row.
  • Bill presents a specific second-order ODE and attempts to express it in matrix form, but acknowledges confusion regarding the signs and structure of the equations.
  • Another participant paraphrases Bill's problem and suggests a matrix representation involving variables for the first and second derivatives, but does not confirm if this aligns with Bill's original intent.
  • A different participant presents an alternative method for converting a higher-order ODE into a system of first-order ODEs, demonstrating the use of new variables for derivatives.
  • This participant also mentions using Mathematica to solve the system and shares initial conditions for their example.
  • One participant expresses enthusiasm for LaTeX, indicating a preference for it over other tools for mathematical representation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of how to convert second-order ODEs into matrix form, with no clear consensus on the best approach or structure. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific matrix representation that satisfies the requirements of the numerical method.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note confusion in the original problem statement and the need for clarity in the conversion process. There are also indications of differing methods for handling higher-order derivatives, which may depend on specific definitions or assumptions not fully articulated in the discussion.

arizonian
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I feel so embarrased asking this question, but this is the place to get answers.

I have a 2nd order ODE with a forcing function that needs to be manipulated and put into a matrix for a numerical method solution, ie Matlab. My question is: Is the matrix composed of a particular solution in the top row and a homogenous solution in the bottom row? Does this satisfy the requirement for two equations? Maybe I should say equation, not solution.

My work:

m d^2x/dt^2 + c dx/dt + kx = 0

d^2x/dt^2 = dx/dt

Substituting y2 for d^2t/dx^2 and y1 for dx/dt, and realizing that y2 is the derivative of y1, I end up with, in matrix form:

(I am using periods to hold the spacing)

[-1/k...-c/mk]..[y2]...=[x2]
[1...-1]..[y1]...=[x1]

Thank you

Bill

On edit, I realized I forgot the signs in the first equation.
On second edit, I changed the lower equation to simplify what I was after.
 
Last edited:
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Any body care to comment?

Bill
 
The way you describe the problem is a little confusing. Let me try to paraphrase.
Your original problem is:
m \frac{d^2 x}{d t^2} + c \frac{dx}{dt} + kx = 0
m \frac{d^2 x}{d t^2} - \frac{dx}{dt} = 0

And you would like to transfer it to matrix form, right ?
You might do something as follows:

y_{1}=x
y_{2}= \frac{dx}{dt}
And let
X = \left(\begin{array}{c} y_{1} \\ y_{2} \end{array}\right)
Y = \left(\begin{array}{c}\frac{d y_{1}}{dt} \\ \frac{dy_{2}}{dt} \end{array}\right)

And you might turn this problem into

\left(\begin{array}{cc} c &amp; m \\ -1 &amp; m \end{array}\right) Y=<br /> \left(\begin{array}{cc} -k &amp; 0 \\ 0 &amp; 00 \end{array}\right)X<br />

Is this what you are trying to ask ?

Probably you can just start from here and check the other websites
to solve this question in martrix form. You might as well just take a look
at

http://www.ScienceOxygen.com/math409.html

It might not solve your question directly. But it is with a lot of links
on differential equation. You could start from there to collect some information...
 
I think the original question is a bit confussing. This is how I'd present converting a high-order ODE to a system of first-order ODEs:


<br /> \frac {d^2y} {dx^2} + \ln{y} = yx<br />

To convert this to a system of ODEs,

let:

<br /> z[x]=\frac{dy} {dx}<br />

Then:

<br /> \frac{dy} {dx} = z <br />

<br /> \frac {dz} {dx} =yx-\ln{y} <br />

You can use the same method for higher-order ODEs, just assigning different variables to each higher-order derivative. I used Mathematica to solve this system with initial conditions:

<br /> y[0]=1<br />

<br /> y&#039;[0]=1<br />

I attached a plot of the solution which you can find in "additional options".

SD
 

Attachments

  • plot1.JPG
    plot1.JPG
    5.3 KB · Views: 545
Oh yea, I thought the talking dictionary on line was cool, but LaTeX rocks!

SD
 

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