Linearly dependent numbers over the rationals

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter kyryk
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Linearly Numbers
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the linear dependence of positive real numbers over the rational numbers (Q). Participants explore the existence of algorithms to determine coefficients (q_i) for a linear combination of these numbers equating to zero. The Gauss elimination algorithm is referenced as a potential method for finite-dimensional spaces, while the process of subtracting smaller numbers from larger ones is highlighted as a method for two numbers. However, the challenge remains to find a similar approach for more than two numbers.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of linear dependence and independence in vector spaces
  • Familiarity with rational numbers and their properties
  • Knowledge of algorithms, specifically Gauss elimination
  • Basic concepts of real numbers and their operations
NEXT STEPS
  • Research algorithms for determining linear dependence in multiple dimensions
  • Study the properties of rational numbers in relation to real numbers
  • Explore advanced linear algebra techniques beyond Gauss elimination
  • Investigate computational methods for finding coefficients in linear combinations
USEFUL FOR

Mathematicians, students of linear algebra, and computer scientists interested in algorithms for linear dependence and rational number properties will benefit from this discussion.

kyryk
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Hi,
Assume that the real positive numbers x_1,x_2,...,x_n are linearly dependent over the rational numbers, i.e. there are q_1,...,q_n in Q such that x_1*q_1+...+x_n*q_n=0. Is there an algorithm to calculate the coefficients q_i? Is there an algorithm to even check if the x_i's are linearly dependent over Q? In a finite dimensional space, we have the Gauss elimination algorithm, is there something similar?

For example, if we only have two numbers x and y, both >0, then we can start subtracting the smaller one from the larger one. This process terminates until one of them is zero, and that happens in a finite amount of steps if and only if their ratio is a rational number.
Is there anything similar to this for more than two numbers?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
kyryk said:
Hi,
Assume that the real positive numbers x_1,x_2,...,x_n are linearly dependent over the rational numbers, i.e. there are q_1,...,q_n in Q such that x_1*q_1+...+x_n*q_n=0.
This is incorrect. If the numbers x1, x2, ..., xn are linearly dependent, there are numbers q1, q2, ..., qn, not all of which are zero[/color], for which x1q1 + x2q2 + ... + xnqn = 0.
kyryk said:
Is there an algorithm to calculate the coefficients q_i? Is there an algorithm to even check if the x_i's are linearly dependent over Q? In a finite dimensional space, we have the Gauss elimination algorithm, is there something similar?

For example, if we only have two numbers x and y, both >0, then we can start subtracting the smaller one from the larger one. This process terminates until one of them is zero, and that happens in a finite amount of steps if and only if their ratio is a rational number.
Is there anything similar to this for more than two numbers?
 
Sure, it is part of the definition of linearly dependent, thanks for clarifying it though.

However, I still need an answer/suggestions to my actual question.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
5K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K