Literacy Rates and Developing Countries

[JonDrew]

Think of it like this learning to be an electrician with a speech to text e-reader would be great until you went to the store and could not read the box of fuses to know which ones you need to buy.

Or being a mechanic and not being able to get the right parts because you can not actually read the boxes.

Unless you can read you can't actually do the job without help no matter how much you learn about being an electrician or a mechanic you will still need the skill to read at some point.

Haha, hadn't thought of that.

But it certainly lays the ground work for someone to easily show him how to choose the correct fuse and that is what I think the importance of this Idea is. Maybe they would develop a whole new classification system for fuses or one person is taught to fetch the fuses and the other installs them, it could work.

 

[Oltz]

More equivocation and obfuscation. The first article is so short and vague as to be worthless, all the wikipedia article does is confirm every country has their own standards for measuring poverty, and the PDF consists of nothing more than a theory proposed by two authors. None of them constitute evidence that any of your assertions are anything more than wild speculation. With all the vast and reputable organizations today dedicated to addressing poverty if this is the best you can do I'd suggest trying harder.

You seem to have lost your plot you said poverty is cured by gender equality. I said gender equality can not exist until a society is modern enough to have time for education.

It doesn't matter how many "vast and reputable organizations" address poverty unless you can show one that goes into subsistence living communities and mandates gender equality as a method of solving poverty you are the one without an argument.

I agree that gender equality would help in the middle east but really I have seen nothing that shows it as the cause of better standards of living and not a symptom. As those cultures modernize they will be forced to embrace equal education and other gender issues or the culture will stagnate.

What I showed was that people can not define poverty and vast and reputable organizations can not agree on how to compare poverty even in this country alone forget about globally and that other researchers are looking at the correlations in many countries between development level and gender equality as a result of development not as the cause.

Even in the US and UK development happened first then gender and race issues became possible. Now its on you to show me one example that goes the other direction.

 

[Gokul43201]

Speech to text could write your messages for you but unless your co workers are texting you everything they need to have you read how will those simple day to day minute to minute things that are in text get to your e-reader.

Camera on your device snaps a picture of the text on a menu/billboard/receipt/shipping label/product packaging/other document and a text recognition software renders the text that is then converted to speech.

 

[JonDrew]

Camera on your device snaps a picture of the text on a menu/billboard/receipt/shipping label/product packaging/other document and a text recognition software renders the text that is then converted to speech.

Or a barcode system of similar type could work. Perfect.

 

[wuliheron]

You seem to have lost your plot you said poverty is cured by gender equality. I said gender equality can not exist until a society is modern enough to have time for education.

It doesn't matter how many "vast and reputable organizations" address poverty unless you can show one that goes into subsistence living communities and mandates gender equality as a method of solving poverty you are the one without an argument.

I agree that gender equality would help in the middle east but really I have seen nothing that shows it as the cause of better standards of living and not a symptom. As those cultures modernize they will be forced to embrace equal education and other gender issues or the culture will stagnate.

What I showed was that people can not define poverty and vast and reputable organizations can not agree on how to compare poverty even in this country alone forget about globally and that other researchers are looking at the correlations in many countries between development level and gender equality as a result of development not as the cause.

Even in the US and UK development happened first then gender and race issues became possible. Now its on you to show me one example that goes the other direction.

Grameen bank loaning money to women in a country like India where women are often still treated like property is an example of how gender equality can be promoted in poor countries and can address destitute poverty. Other organizations provide micro loans online and allow individuals to pick and choose who they loan money to. These are but a few examples of how greater gender equality is already being promoted in extremely poor countries and how improved communications allows this occur. If you were expecting some sort of miracle transformation overnight I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the real issue here is dealing with destitute poverty and supporting the right of women to earn a living.

 

[Oltz]

Grameen bank loaning money to women in a country like India where women are often still treated like property is an example of how gender equality can be promoted in poor countries and can address destitute poverty. Other organizations provide micro loans online and allow individuals to pick and choose who they loan money to. These are but a few examples of how greater gender equality is already being promoted in extremely poor countries and how improved communications allows this occur. If you were expecting some sort of miracle transformation overnight I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the real issue here is dealing with destitute poverty and supporting the right of women to earn a living.

Still more examples of working on gender equality AFTER a certain standard of living has been achieved.

I agree that gender rights are very important and that they help bring women out of poverty but they still are irrelevant until a certain standard of living is achieved. Giving a women a loan who needs to gather food and water for 16 hours a day just to survive is not going to help a society.

Look at all the examples you give they are all clearly in places where running water and electricity is prevalent and literacy is established. This thread is about those truly without any modern amenities that facility education by freeing time in day to day life.

India has a very large "poor" population and those loans are doing some good things from what I see on wiki, but those loans would not be possible without the advances already made in India as a whole that is my point. Gender issues come second they always have and always will.

 

[wuliheron]

Still more examples of working on gender equality AFTER a certain standard of living has been achieved.

I agree that gender rights are very important and that they help bring women out of poverty but they still are irrelevant until a certain standard of living is achieved. Giving a women a loan who needs to gather food and water for 16 hours a day just to survive is not going to help a society.

Look at all the examples you give they are all clearly in places where running water and electricity is prevalent and literacy is established. This thread is about those truly without any modern amenities that facility education by freeing time in day to day life.

India has a very large "poor" population and those loans are doing some good things from what I see on wiki, but those loans would not be possible without the advances already made in India as a whole that is my point. Gender issues come second they always have and always will.

Those women of Bangladesh were among the destitute and had no standard of living. The story goes that a few students from the university went into the ghetto and asked around about what people thought could help them the most. At one point a group of about 30 locals asked them to moderate a dispute because they were neutral parties.

For hours they argued back and forth about who owed who what until the students finally asked them how much money they were talking about. When they told the students it was twenty dollars they practically threw the money at them just to get out of there. The next time the students returned they were paid back their twenty bucks, approached by another group fighting over money, and legend has it the same twenty dollars is still floating around to this day. When your livelihood depend on twenty bucks it can't be called a standard of living, it is destitute poverty.

In their case destitute poverty for which a simple solution was found thanks to a little communication.

 

[nitsuj]

I mean the plan isn't Ideal but neither is an illiterate population. What are your thoughts on the matter?

Being a little light on the self criticism no? Not ideal? Not practical imo.

I think it is a poor "substitute".

never mind gender inequality issues, how about literacy inequalities. They still would not know how to read / write.

Oltz has nailed it imo, definitely need the survival basis covered, then energy (work), then talky talk about the inequalities.

 

[BobG]

Camera on your device snaps a picture of the text on a menu/billboard/receipt/shipping label/product packaging/other document and a text recognition software renders the text that is then converted to speech.

Or a barcode system of similar type could work. Perfect.

Personally, I find this as disturbing as youth no longer needing to learn simple arithmetic because their smart phone has a calculator built into it.

Objectively, people survived reasonably well for eons with no written language. They just put the words into song and dance to make it easier for them to remember them.

Is it conceivable that technology could turn issues such as math/language literacy into a transition phase that humans passed through?

(Probably not, since someone has to learn the things that keep the technology running, but I guess the percentage of the population required to know those sorts of things could be drastically reduced.)

 

[wuliheron]

I read somewhere that archaeologists found a cuneiform tablet dated to about a hundred years after the invention of writing. On it the author complained that writing was ruining their children who no longer bothered to memorize everything. Like science itself mathematics, writing, etc. are all just tools for collecting and collating data. The issue is and has always been about learning how to use the tools effectively and, as the Buddhists like to say, not to confuse the finger pointing at the moon with the moon itself.

 

[JonDrew]

Personally, I find this as disturbing as youth no longer needing to learn simple arithmetic because their smart phone has a calculator built into it.

Objectively, people survived reasonably well for eons with no written language. They just put the words into song and dance to make it easier for them to remember them.

Is it conceivable that technology could turn issues such as math/language literacy into a transition phase that humans passed through?

(Probably not, since someone has to learn the things that keep the technology running, but I guess the percentage of the population required to know those sorts of things could be drastically reduced.)

There is no rule which states that there have to be high literacy rates in a population for it to be successful, but there is a strong correlation between the two. I think "speech to text" technology could help develop a nation in order that the next generation of that nation wouldn't have to be stuck in poverty. Consequently, I think it could give those people the chance to even worry about the way its students are learning arithmetic.

I think because of the cost of an education system circumventing literacy rates for a few generations in developing nations could do those developing countries some good.

 

[JonDrew]

I read somewhere that archaeologists found a cuneiform tablet dated to about a hundred years after the invention of writing. On it the author complained that writing was ruining their children who no longer bothered to memorize everything. Like science itself mathematics, writing, etc. are all just tools for collecting and collating data. The issue is and has always been about learning how to use the tools effectively and, as the Buddhists like to say, not to confuse the finger pointing at the moon with the moon itself.

Intriguing, could you provide me a link for that tablet thing I would very much like to quote an article about it.

 

[Evo]

There is no rule which states that there have to be high literacy rates in a population for it to be successful, but there is a strong correlation between the two. I think "speech to text" technology could help develop a nation in order that the next generation of that nation wouldn't have to be stuck in poverty. Consequently, I think it could give those people the chance to even worry about the way its students are learning arithmetic.

I think because of the cost of an education system circumventing literacy rates for a few generations in developing nations could do those developing countries some good.

Jon, I'm going to have to stop you here. You are posting a LOT of personal opinions (guideline violation) but you haven't posted any legitimate peer reviewed studies on the subject. How well does purely oral memorization work? With nothing written to check accuracy, memory doesn't do that well alone, IMO. How many times would someone have to repeat information verbally in order for it to sink in? How much information would a normally functionioning human be expected to retain on a daily basis? How easy would it be for them to go back to a specific item that they are confused about? They can't read, so they can't look it up.

Please post studies that back up the claims you've made before continuing to post.

Thank you.

 

[wuliheron]

Intriguing, could you provide me a link for that tablet thing I would very much like to quote an article about it.

Like I said it's just something I read somewhere and if I had a reference I'd provide it. However the idea that the older generation often views the younger as lazy or stupid because they no longer value things like how to use a slide rule or work equations in their heads isn't exactly a new phenomenon and I'm sure you can find plenty of other examples. For example, Plato complained about the invention of writing ruining the minds of the young as well. Personally I'm a bit intimidated by what young people can do with cellphones these days.

 

[Evo]

Like I said it's just something I read somewhere and if I had a reference I'd provide it. However the idea that the older generation often views the younger as lazy or stupid because they no longer value things like how to use a slide rule or work equations in their heads isn't exactly a new phenomenon and I'm sure you can find plenty of other examples. For example, Plato complained about the invention of writing ruining the minds of the young as well. Personally I'm a bit intimidated by what young people can do with cellphones these days.

I'm letting this slide because it's so funny. But hold back on the jokes, (cuneiform tablet)

 

[JonDE]

I disagree with the whole premise that you could somehow skip the growing pains for an entire country by giving people a device that can read for them. I disagree because I don't think literacy really helps that much in impoverished nations.

IMO education in general is the main factor that is missing. If you can read and write but can't do simple arithmatic, how much are your job opporunities going to improve? Not very much I would think. Even then putting people through school won't help very much if there aren't the right job opporunities.

To address the posts regarding equalization for women, while I do feel that it is important, it is not the end all be all. Strong economic growth is the major factor for many countries. If you live in Uganda their PPP is only $1200 per person. Thats in a year. Even if split perfectly between men and women, the average Ugandan is only going to make 1200 a year. Of course some will make less and some will make more.