Logic equivalence and implication, question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a logic problem involving implications and equivalences in propositional logic. Participants are attempting to construct and analyze a truth table based on a given argument involving weather conditions, train schedules, and a dog’s behavior. The focus includes the formulation of logical expressions and the interpretation of truth table results.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an argument and proposes a formula: (W v E -> D) ^ (E ^ ~W) -> ~D, expressing uncertainty about its correctness.
  • Another participant suggests that the formula should be (W ∧ E -> D) instead of (W v E -> D), indicating a potential misunderstanding of the premises.
  • Several participants discuss the construction of truth tables, with some expressing confusion about the terms "comparison table" and "truth table." They seek clarification on whether these terms are interchangeable.
  • There is a contention regarding the correct interpretation of the truth table results, particularly concerning which rows yield true values for D.
  • One participant asserts that the truth table for the formula (W ∧ E -> D) has a single false value in the last column, while another claims that both formulas yield the same truth table results.
  • Another participant expresses frustration over consistently arriving at incorrect answers for the second last column of the truth table and seeks assistance in understanding the discrepancies.
  • There is a suggestion that the term "comparison table" may not be standard in propositional logic, prompting participants to review their materials for clarification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct formulation of the logical expressions or the interpretation of the truth table results. Multiple competing views remain regarding the correct approach to the problem and the definitions of terms used.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the definitions of "comparison table" and "truth table," as well as the specific rows in the truth table that correspond to true values for D. Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the construction of truth tables and the implications of their results.

sadsadsadsa
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Hey guys I am having a bit of a difficult time with this question, if some one could help me out it would be appreciated, thanks.

Consider the following argument. "If the weather is fine, and the train is early, then the dog will sit on the tuckerbox. The train will be early, (but) also there will be rain. So the dog will not sit on the tuckerbox."Let W mean "the weather will be fine", E mean "the train will come early" and D mean "the dog will sit on the tuckerbox".

I get a formula like this: (W v E -> D) ^ (E ^ ~W) -> ~D. Am i right? I don't know how to do the rest. When i try working out the second question i get BDFH, i think I am right for that one but the first question I am still not sure.

(1) (2)
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Does the "comparison table" mean "truth table"?

sadsadsadsa said:
I get a formula like this: (W v E -> D) ^ (E ^ ~W) -> ~D. Am i right?
It should say $W\land E$, not $W\lor E$.

sadsadsadsa said:
When i try working out the second question i get BDFH
Isn't it the answer to the first question, i.e., rows where D is T?

sadsadsadsa said:
the first question I am still not sure.
Do you know how to construct truth tables? If yes, then what exactly is your difficulty? If no, then you should be asking for references describing how to do it.

You can construct a truth table using the mathematics software system SageMath if you go here, enter the following code:
Code:
import sage.logic.propcalc as propcalc
f = propcalc.formula("(W & E -> D) & (E & ~W) -> ~D")
f.truthtable()
and press "Evaluate".
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
Does the "comparison table" mean "truth table"?

It should say $W\land E$, not $W\lor E$.

Isn't it the answer to the first question, i.e., rows where D is T?

Do you know how to construct truth tables? If yes, then what exactly is your difficulty? If no, then you should be asking for references describing how to do it.

You can construct a truth table using the mathematics software system SageMath if you go here, enter the following code:
Code:
import sage.logic.propcalc as propcalc
f = propcalc.formula("(W & E -> D) & (E & ~W) -> ~D")
f.truthtable()
and press "Evaluate".

This is wrong, i found the compound proposition equation for the first premisis, second premisis, and conclusion but somehow i keep getting the wrong answer. The second question which asked [TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]In which rows of the last column does T appear?

the answer was B,D,F,H just like I said, but the first question is still not right.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
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sadsadsadsa said:
This is wrong, i found the compound proposition equation for the first premisis, second premisis, and conclusion but somehow i keep getting the wrong answer.
The first premise is, "If the weather is fine and the train is early, then the dog will sit on the tuckerbox". The formula should therefore be $W\land E\to D$, not $W\lor E\to D$. Do you agree?

The truth table for $(W\land E\to D)\land(E\land\neg W)\to\neg D$ has a single F in the last column, namely, for $E=D=T$ and $W=F$. It has T in all other rows. The formula $(W\lor E\to D)\land(E\land\neg W)\to\neg D$ has the same truth table. Which formula gives you T in rows 2, 4, 6, 8 (B, D, F, H)?
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
The first premise is, "If the weather is fine and the train is early, then the dog will sit on the tuckerbox". The formula should therefore be $W\land E\to D$, not $W\lor E\to D$. Do you agree?

The truth table for $(W\land E\to D)\land(E\land\neg W)\to\neg D$ has a single F in the last column, namely, for $E=D=T$ and $W=F$. It has T in all other rows. The formula $(W\lor E\to D)\land(E\land\neg W)\to\neg D$ has the same truth table. Which formula gives you T in rows 2, 4, 6, 8 (B, D, F, H)?

I get the same formula as you, but i know for sure B,D,F,H is the answer for the second question and should be the last column, i do not know what formula gives this. what do you get for the second last column as the answer, because so far i keep getting it wrong.

Here is the whole question I just don't know that one question:

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In the standard truth table, the column for the last variable (D in this case) has T precisely in even rows when rows are counted from 1. You can see the complete truth table generated by Sage as described in post #2. Other than that, I don't understand how you are constructing your truth table and even whether "comparison table" is the same as "truth table"; you have not responded to my question about that.
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
In the standard truth table, the column for the last variable (D in this case) has T precisely in even rows when rows are counted from 1. You can see the complete truth table generated by Sage as described in post #2. Other than that, I don't understand how you are constructing your truth table and even whether "comparison table" is the same as "truth table"; you have not responded to my question about that.

I constructed my truth table just like you suggested, all I cannot understand is what the answer is for the second last column. I don't understand isn't my comparison table just a truth table for my formula, what am i doing wrong? What do you get for the second last column because whatever I'm putting as my answer I am doing something wrong. CAN ANYONE HELP ME?
 
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The term "comparison table" is not standard in propositional logic. Perhaps it is important to figure out exactly what it means and what columns are last and second last (in general, not for this specific argument). Only you can do this by reviewing your textbook or lecture notes. If you find the definition, post it here and we will try to figure out the apparent answer to question 15 (B, D, F, H). So far all I can do it show the truth table for the formula that corresponds to this argument.
Code:
W      E      D      value
False  False  False  True   
False  False  True   True   
False  True   False  True   
False  True   True   False  
True   False  False  True   
True   False  True   True   
True   True   False  True   
True   True   True   True
It is also possible that question 15 is mistaken and is asking about the second last column after all.
 

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