Looking into the past with telescopes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of observing the Big Bang using telescopes, particularly focusing on the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR) and the limitations of different types of telescopes in this context. Participants explore theoretical and observational aspects of cosmology, including the nature of the CMBR and the implications of the universe's expansion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a telescope capable of seeing light from ~14 billion lightyears could observe the Big Bang.
  • Others argue that while the CMBR is a remnant of the Big Bang, it represents light from a few hundred thousand years after the event, not the event itself.
  • A participant highlights that the universe was opaque for the first 400,000 years, making it impossible to see the Big Bang directly.
  • There are claims that the CMBR can be detected with radio telescopes, and that it can also be heard as static on a TV tuned between channels.
  • Some participants express concern that overly technical explanations may confuse those new to the topic, suggesting a more straightforward interpretation of the CMBR as light from the Big Bang.
  • One participant mentions the historical context of the term "Big Bang" and questions its appropriateness, while also discussing the early opaque state of the universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the interpretation of the CMBR and its relationship to the Big Bang, with multiple competing views remaining on how to explain these concepts to those unfamiliar with the details.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved nuances regarding the definitions of light from the Big Bang versus the CMBR, as well as the implications of the universe's opacity in its early stages. The discussion reflects varying levels of technical understanding among participants.

Darkmisc
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If it were possible to build a telescope that could see light from ~14 billion lightyears, would we be able to observe the Big Bang?

And if so, would this be the case irrespective of the direction the telescope is pointing?
 
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It IS possible, and we DO see the big bang. But because of the expansion of the universe, the light of the big bang is red-shifted all the way into the microwave region of the electromagnetic spectrum. It is called the CMB (Cosmic Microwave Background) and was discovered by Penzias and Wilson in the 1960's And yes, we say basically the same radiation no matter which direction we look.
 
phyzguy said:
It IS possible, and we DO see the big bang. ...
Close, but not quite right.

The CMBR is not light from the big bang. It is light from a few hundred thousand years (400,000 IIRC) after the big bang. We can't see older than that because for the first 400,000 years the universe was opaque.

And yes, we say basically the same radiation no matter which direction we look.
There are slight, very slight, variations in the CMBR. Those slight variations give us some insight into what happened before the universe became transparent. You have probably seen bad science in movies where people use infrared scanners to see people moving around inside a house. That is bad science (houses have insulation), but there are inklings of good science there. We can see through walls with IR, but things are more than a bit fuzzy. Similarly, scientists can see a bit beyond the surface of last scattering thanks to the not quite uniformness of the CMBR.
 
D H said:
Close, but not quite right.

The CMBR is not light from the big bang.

Like many of the posts here, I find this simply too pedantic for someone trying to understand these issues for the first time. Suppose someone saw a flash of light from an explosion and asked, "Was that light from the explosion?", would you answer:

(1) Yes, that flash was from the explosion.

or

(2) No, you can't see the explosion because the initial density of the expanding plasma is so high that the plasma is opaque so that you can't see the actual explosion. All you are seeing is the light that is emitted after the initial fireball of the explosion has expanded and cooled to the point where the light can escape from the expanding fireball.

While the second answer is technically more accurate, and is the answer you should give to someone who is studying these things in detail, I think it only serves to confuse people who are trying to understand things at a basic level. The CMBR is the light from the big bang, just like the light you see from a firecracker is the light emitted by the firecracker, or the light emitted by a lightning bolt is the light emitted by the lightning bolt.
 
You can't see the CMBR in an ordinary telescope - you need a radio telescope for that - or a TV. Tune it somewhere between the channels and some of the hiss, static and crackle will be the CMBR. At least that's what I've read.
The Big Bang is not a great name for it, iit was coined by a fellow who was trying to make fun of the concept (Hoyle?) It was very small considering the size it is and the size it will be. As for making a bang, well if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around does it make a sound? In the early stages of its development the universe was opaque or 'foggy' even if you could see it, there would be nothing to see. It took around 400,000 years for this to clear. So the answer to your question is simply: No. Not even with the best optical scope.
 

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