M-Theory : listing the 11 dimensions

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  • #26
Has anyone else considered that the reason there are 11 dimensions in M theory is that there are 11 notes in a musical scale with the 12 being an octave and beginning the sequence all over again. this can also be described in the abstraction of space using the topology equation of 2n+1. In any n dimensional space, there is 2n+1 0-dimensional points.

Therefore, in 0 dimensional space, there is 1 0-dimensional point or a singularity, a point. In 1 dimensional space, there are 3 0-dimensional points or a line, the x axis. In 2 dimensional space, there are 5 0-dimensional points or a plane, the x-y axis. In 3 dimensional space, there are 7 0-dimensional points or the x-y-z axis. In 4 dimensional space (time), there are 9 0-dimensional points the x-y-z axis plus the 1st quadrant 45 degree rotation from these axes. The 5th, 6th and 7th dimensions there are 11, 13 and 15 0-dimensional points respectively and graphically represented by the 45 degree rotations in the other 3 quadrants of the x-y-z axes. The 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th dimensions there are 17, 19, 21 and 23 0-dimensional points respectively and graphically respresented by the 45 degree inverse or symmetric rotations of the 4 quadrants of the x-y-z axis. The 0 dimension is the representation of the octave of 11 dimensions and the 2nd octave of 0-dimensional points equaling 24.

Just a thought!
 
  • #27
Alfi
Has anyone else considered that the reason there are 11 dimensions in M theory is that there are 11 notes in a musical scale with the 12 being an octave and beginning the sequence all over again. this can also be described in the abstraction of space using the topology equation of 2n+1. In any n dimensional space, there is 2n+1 0-dimensional points.

Therefore, in 0 dimensional space, there is 1 0-dimensional point or a singularity, a point. In 1 dimensional space, there are 3 0-dimensional points or a line, the x axis. In 2 dimensional space, there are 5 0-dimensional points or a plane, the x-y axis. In 3 dimensional space, there are 7 0-dimensional points or the x-y-z axis. In 4 dimensional space (time), there are 9 0-dimensional points the x-y-z axis plus the 1st quadrant 45 degree rotation from these axes. The 5th, 6th and 7th dimensions there are 11, 13 and 15 0-dimensional points respectively and graphically represented by the 45 degree rotations in the other 3 quadrants of the x-y-z axes. The 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th dimensions there are 17, 19, 21 and 23 0-dimensional points respectively and graphically respresented by the 45 degree inverse or symmetric rotations of the 4 quadrants of the x-y-z axis. The 0 dimension is the representation of the octave of 11 dimensions and the 2nd octave of 0-dimensional points equaling 24.

Just a thought!
I like it. I would edit the
Has anyone else considered that the reason there are 11 dimensions in M theory is that there are 11 notes in a musical scale with the 12 being an octave and beginning the sequence all over again. this can also be described in the abstraction of space using the topology equation of 2n+1.

Should point out that it is a 'western musical scale'.

One of the reasons that the 12 tone equal temperament scale exists, is because it was a compromise for keyboard instruments, allowing them to sound good (though slightly out of tune) in every key. *

*I can't confirm that, other than saying I heard it from a very experienced piano tuner.

When you put together a cause or a reason, with an observation about a random musical scale, I don't quite see the connection.
 
  • #28
I like it. I would edit the
Has anyone else considered that the reason there are 11 dimensions in M theory is that there are 11 notes in a musical scale with the 12 being an octave and beginning the sequence all over again. this can also be described in the abstraction of space using the topology equation of 2n+1.

Should point out that it is a 'western musical scale'.

One of the reasons that the 12 tone equal temperament scale exists, is because it was a compromise for keyboard instruments, allowing them to sound good (though slightly out of tune) in every key. *

*I can't confirm that, other than saying I heard it from a very experienced piano tuner.

When you put together a cause or a reason, with an observation about a random musical scale, I don't quite see the connection.
I am basing this on spherical musical harmonics where using the equiangular spiral musical chromatic scale of 12 semitones. The musical scale to which a musical scale is usually tuned is the diatonic scale. The "evenly tempered" scale is slightly different, being a mathematically accurate exponential scale. The wavelength from middle c to c', an octave above it, with c' taken as unity: each wavelength k= 1.0595 times that of the semitone above it. Each semitone is derived going through 15 degrees of wavelength x k. c' = 1 or 0 degrees through c = 2 or 180 degrees. This is an equiangular (logarithmic) spiral. This gives the constant angle alpha for the equiangular spiral of music of approximately 77 degrees 55785013 minutes. By choosing the appropriate value of alpha, we can insure that any 2 radii separated by 90 degrees be the ratio of phi:1. Given the condition that r2/r1 = phi, when the angle separating the 2 radii is pi/2, gives an alpha equal to
approximately 72.96760887 degrees. This is the constant angle of the equiangular spiral which incorporates both the golden section and the golden numbers. This uses the definition of the divine proportion, phi, and why I chose that musical scale.
 
  • #29
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0
Truly fascinating all the musical connections between string theory and M theory. Brian Green has opined that one can reasonably assert that the universe is music. So I then imagined him running through the Kalahari proclaiming excitedly "The Universe is Music! The Universe is Music!"; to which a shaman slowly raised his head from his drum, as the dancers all sing in unison in an attempt to communicate with "All That Is": "So it took you that long to discover what has been, to us for millennia, a simple and obvious fact?"
 
  • #30
Truly fascinating all the musical connections between string theory and M theory. Brian Green has opined that one can reasonably assert that the universe is music. So I then imagined him running through the Kalahari proclaiming excitedly "The Universe is Music! The Universe is Music!"; to which a shaman slowly raised his head from his drum, as the dancers all sing in unison in an attempt to communicate with "All That Is": "So it took you that long to discover what has been, to us for millennia, a simple and obvious fact?"
let me further explain the concept of dimension using the topology theory equation of 2n+1. i am a mathematician and the only required class i had to take to get my BS in mathematics from one of the U of MO system was a class called "math thought." this is basically a number theory class in which the proof of the numbers 0 and 1 are derived from pure thought. without this proof there would be no such foundations for mathematics, physics and engineering to even exist.

on the 0 dimension with 1 0-dimensional point, what is this point/singularity (there is no such thing as nothing-any concept of a before and after is meaningless-if you want to define it in a spiritual explanation-it is the "I AM"). in actuality, call it an infinitely observing entity of pure conscious intelligence. why not! the dimensions of space-time (4 of them) are just the human definition of our perceptions. so, what might the 5 dimension be called, how about consciousness in order to perceive the other 4 dimensions. if it wasn't for time, how would we perceive the concept of space which is a position. time gives movement and consciousness allows for observation of these dimensions. in absolute, the naming of dimensions is to explain observation. that is all.

in mathematics, counting is usually started with 0. therefore, what M theory calls 11 dimensions is really 12 dimensions if it includes the 0 dimension. this is the 12 semitones of music. yes, the universe is musical!
 
  • #31
another comment on the 2n+1 equation of topology theory: any n-dimension has 2n+1 0-dimensional points. in my opinion, this equation is more powerful than E=mc^2. why? without 2n+1, E=mc^2 would not exist!
 
  • #32
another concept on the topology theory equation of 2n+1: in any n-dimension there is 2n+1 0-dimensional points. in my opinion, this equation is more powerful than E=mc^2. why? without the equation of 2n+1, E=mc^2 would not exist. it gives the existence of something in the presence of nothing. there is no such thing as nothing. in 0 dimension, there is the existence of 1 0-dimensional point. the past, present and future exist in an absolute singularity. i don't believe in the big bang as the creation of the universe, only a perception of a partial reality of existence. a singularity causing infinite mass to collapse into a singularity? what is this mass? it is pure consciousness. a singularity collapsing into a singularity-a black hole? doesn't black hole theory analyzed as a membrane paradigm say that anything past the event horizon, radius 1, of 1.1 is distorted? using the natural logarithm between 1 and 2 concept and its musical implications of wave lengths through 180 degrees being 1 to 2 with the k=1.0595 difference between wavelengths of the 12 semitones. the difference between 1.1 and 2 is 0.9. the 90% of the missing mass of the universe-dark matter?
 
  • #33
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0
there are not 11 dimentions.

There are 11 "sets" or "groups" of 11s.

HOWEVER, some are Trigonametry based, and some are Calculus based.

Some are also certain combinations of Trig and Calculus "11"s, unified with algebra "11"s.,

The resulting unified math fields, as well as the physically existing structure itself, MUST then "balance" in a "3-D frame of reference" in order for "String Theory" to become "String Fact".

I STRESS: AND I MEAN STRESS, everything as I have "explained" so far are nouns. Verbs come later.

Summing up: there are only three "measures" to consider so far; Algebra, Calculus, Trig. I STRESS: AND I MEAN STRESS those are also just nouns so far.

All string theories, like all advanced mathematics, have a 3-D "heart", or "frame of reference": where the theories begin, and where they are "propossed" to return for unification. "Unification" is ALWAYS a noun, and should never be considered a verb.

For this thread, lets state "unification" as "Big U"; the ultimate "goal" or "solution", and stop to recognize a major "brain buster" people get "confused" with.

As I read every possible theory I come across, the term: "unify", or the phrase "seeks to unify it all together" create errors in elemetary logic. Both "unifys" are verbs there.

When ANY verb is "referenced" or "defined", most people "start it up" too soon.

We are just gathering "materials" so far. We'll "start" it later.
The statement 11 set of 11 dimensions interests me and I have not seen direct reply to that comment. Does anyone have any more thoughts or is this statement simply wrong?
Thank you
 
  • #34
i have no clue what this guy is talking about. it makes no sense to me.

anyway, if you really want to understand something about the concept of what i was talking about, read a physics book on gravitation, black holes as a membrane paradigm, phi, pi, topology theory and music theory. put the fundamentals all together. sit at a piano or guitar, pluck a string and watch it vibrate through all its oscillations.
 
  • #35
38
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Nothing like a good video with absolutely no math :D.

To be honest I kind of think this 11-th dimension shenanigans is rubbish. I don't know why every time they come up with a new theory about space and time they've got to put on another dimension. I feel as if these "dimensions" aren't really anything like the dimensions we experience. Guess we could just throw them in with the whole quantam mechanics mess and just say "anything can happen o_O". There's my novice opinion.
 
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  • #36
Fredrik
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The statement 11 set of 11 dimensions interests me and I have not seen direct reply to that comment. Does anyone have any more thoughts or is this statement simply wrong?
Thank you
At least 10-15 posts in this thread are nonsense. I'm going to ask the moderators to do something about it.
 
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  • #37
George Jones
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This thread has provoked too many speculative, pseudo-scientific, and non-scientific responses, so I have closed it.
 

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