Mass radius relationship for SIRIUS B

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mass-radius relationship for white dwarf stars, specifically focusing on the differences between non-relativistic and relativistic Fermi gas models. Participants explore how to plot this relationship and the implications of the Chandrasekhar limit on the graphing of radius versus mass.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a formula for the mass-radius relationship for non-relativistic Fermi gas: R=3.58*10^16 M^(-1/3).
  • Another participant questions how to plot a graph for radius versus mass given that the Chandrasekhar limit results in a single mass value (1.44 M(sun)).
  • There is a discussion about the differences in plotting for relativistic versus non-relativistic Fermi gas, with a request for clarification on how to derive the graph for the relativistic case.
  • A participant mentions that the radius shrinks as mass increases, referencing a source for the formula.
  • Another participant highlights that the relativistic Fermi gas relation leads to a cancellation of radius in the equations, raising questions about how to represent this graphically.
  • A later reply introduces the concept of a "correct curve" that bridges non-relativistic and relativistic limits, explaining the use of specific expressions for momentum flux and kinetic energy density to derive a more accurate representation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to plot the mass-radius relationship, particularly regarding the implications of the Chandrasekhar limit and the interpretation of "relativistic" in the context of the curves. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the correct approach to graphing these relationships.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made in the derivation of the mass-radius relationships and the definitions of the terms used, particularly in distinguishing between relativistic corrections and the ultrarelativistic limit.

cooper607
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hi guys, I have been doing a research on white dwarf stars and chanrashekhar limit. I need to plot a graph for the mass-radius relationship of the dwarfs. from the equalization of the hydrostatic equilibrium pressure and the electron degeneracy pressure I found out the radius -mass relationship for non relativistic fermi gas.

my final result is

R=3.58*10^16 M^(-1/3)

but when I take relativistic fermi gas, pressure comes in order of 4/3 and the radius cancels out leaving the equation to be
M(limit)=1.44 M(sun)

Now for this maximum limit how can I plot a graph for radius vs mass. which values should i input for different masses? please help me
 
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What do you mean plot a graph of radius vs mass for a limit? The limit is one value. It's a dot. What is the radius at this mass? If your final result is correct, you need only input this M(limit) into M.
 
But the relativistic fermi gas plot is different than the non relativistic, i want to know how do they get this graph?
 

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  • ChandrasekharLimitGraph.svg.png
    ChandrasekharLimitGraph.svg.png
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dear Chronos, I actually visited that page earlier, for relativistic fermi gas they derived the relation to be 1=M^(-1/3) , so radius actually cancels out from both sides. so how do they plot that graph where radius is zero when mass goes to 1.44? i didnt get any expression for the graph..can you tell me if there is any radius -mass relation for the relativistic curve ?
 
The "relativistic curve" must really mean the "completely correct curve that bridges between the nonrelativistic and relativistic limits." So those two limits are the easy calculations, because the kinetic energy per particle is either p2/2m, or is pc. That gives the the blue and red curves respectively, but those are only true at the edges of the plot. The green curve is the correct curve, which uses the fully correct expressions for the momentum flux that goes into pressure, and the kinetic energy density. In units where momentum is measured in mc units, those expressions are, the angle-averaged momentum flux that goes into the isotropic pressure is 1/3 (from the angle averaging) times p2/root(1+p2), and the kinetic energy is root(1+p2)-1. If you use those two expressions, you obtain the green curve, which is correct in all limits. So the confusion is about whether "relativistic" means "including relativistic corrections" versus "taking the ultrarelativistic limit." They mean the former with that green curve.
 

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