Mathematician's Missing Poetry: James Joseph Sylvester

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around James Joseph Sylvester, a mathematician known for his contributions to various mathematical fields and his passion for poetry. Participants explore his life, his poetic works, and the intersection of mathematics and the arts, while also reflecting on the nature of discussions in the forum.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express interest in Sylvester's dual passion for mathematics and poetry, noting his emotional nature and the inclusion of poetry in his mathematical papers.
  • One participant shares a poem by Richard Feynman, indicating a broader appreciation for the poetic expressions of scientists.
  • Critiques of E.T. Bell's scholarship are mentioned, with a suggestion to consider the accuracy of his portrayal of Sylvester.
  • There are differing opinions on the quality of Sylvester's poetry, with some finding it bland and others suggesting it lacks depth compared to works by established poets.
  • Participants discuss the perceived disconnect between the scientific community and the appreciation for the arts, with some feeling that non-scientific topics receive less engagement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the quality of Sylvester's poetry or the relevance of discussing such topics in a science-focused forum. There are competing views on the value of poetry in relation to mathematics and science.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express frustration with the forum dynamics, suggesting that more technical questions tend to receive more responses, indicating a potential bias towards specific types of discussions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those who appreciate the historical context of mathematics, the interplay between science and the arts, and the biographies of notable mathematicians.

Nyxie
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I read E.T. Bell's 'Men of Mathematics' and found it interesting that one mathematician therein was a big poetry buff. I looked up his poetry but only found two poems online at all! - 'Kepler's Apostrophe,' and 'Remonstrance.' http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poet/403.html


~~~~~~~
From [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Sylvester ]:

James Joseph Sylvester (September 3, 1814 London – March 15, 1897 Oxford) was an English mathematician. He made fundamental contributions to matrix theory, invariant theory, number theory, partition theory and combinatorics. He played a leadership role in American mathematics in the later half of the 19th century as a professor at the Johns Hopkins University and as founder of the American Journal of Mathematics.[...]

One of Sylvester's lifelong passions was for poetry; he read and translated works from the original French, German, Italian, Latin and Greek, and many of his mathematical papers contain illustrative quotes from classical poetry. In 1870, following his early retirement, Sylvester published a book entitled The Laws of Verse in which he attempted to codify a set of laws for prosody in poetry.
~~~~~~~~

If you read about him he was apparently a very emotional and "out-there" kind of guy; he'd sometimes forget theorems he himself discovered and would "unexpectedly burst into orations or recite poetry, often his own" (http://www.robertnowlan.com/pdfs/Sylvester,%20James%20Joseph.pdf).

More on his life: http://www.maths.ed.ac.uk/~aar/sylv/sylvchap.pdf

Mathematicians have the most interesting biographies of all, somehow. :biggrin:
 
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>:(
I spent a lot of time on this post! But I know no one was going to answer. Maybe they will now that I've complained.

At least let me know you don't care! Too much poetry reading I suppose.
 
Why did you expect an answer? Look at your posts, Nyxie. You're dabbling around in all the liberal arts aspects of science - no questions about objects sliding down inclined planes, capacitors with wedge shaped plates or summations of weird series. That's the kind of post that gets answers. You have to get down to specific cases to get results.

I've read critcisms of E. T. Bell's scholarship. It would be interesting to know how much "poetic license" he took in "Men Of Mathematics".

I wonder if old Sylvester was greatly affected by music too.
 
I ask my professors physics questions, not people here. I talk with graduate students more in-depth about things. Not here. I read physics articles. It's more efficient!

Yeah, and I haven't seen you ask about inclined planes! :
I say stuff here I wouldn't say elsewhere because, yes, it's liberal-artsy. Here too. Lots of ignorance floating around. :wink:
But honestly, this is like a "fun" forum for me. I'm not here to prove myself or be instructed by random people on the internet.
Also, I didn't make any untrue claims based on Bell's book.

It seems like scientists hate anything not science sometimes.
 
I'm with you on this one, I really enjoy reading about the history and lives of mathematicians and physicists. While I don't have an answer to your question, here is a poem by the late, great, Richard Feynman that I enjoy:

Ages on ages...
before any eyes could see...
year after year...
thunderously pounding the shore as now.
For whom, for what?
...on a dead planet
with no life to entertain.

Never at rest...
tortured by energy...
wasted prodigiously by the sun...
poured into space.
A mite makes the sea roar.

Deep in the sea,
all molecules repeat
the patterns of another
till complex new ones are formed.
They make others like themselves...
and a new dance starts.

Growing in size and complexity...
living things,
masses of atoms,
DNA, protein...
dancing a pattern ever more intricate.

Out of the cradle
onto dry land...
here it is standing...
atoms with consciousness
...matter with curiosity.

Stands at the sea...
wonders at wondering... I...
a universe of atoms...
an atom in the universe.
 
QuarkCharmer said:
I'm with you on this one, I really enjoy reading about the history and lives of mathematicians and physicists. While I don't have an answer to your question, here is a poem by the late, great, Richard Feynman that I enjoy:
I didn't know Feynman ever wrote poetry, thanks.

Stephen Tashi - Just want to say sorry, if you happen to read this; it's true I haven't made very relevant posts and I'm in no place to bash a forum I barely know. But it just irked me; I haven't posted much at this point.
 
Nyxie said:
I read E.T. Bell's 'Men of Mathematics' and found it interesting that one mathematician therein was a big poetry buff. I looked up his poetry but only found two poems online at all! - 'Kepler's Apostrophe,' and 'Remonstrance.' http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poet/403.html


~~~~~~~
From [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Sylvester ]:

James Joseph Sylvester (September 3, 1814 London – March 15, 1897 Oxford) was an English mathematician. He made fundamental contributions to matrix theory, invariant theory, number theory, partition theory and combinatorics. He played a leadership role in American mathematics in the later half of the 19th century as a professor at the Johns Hopkins University and as founder of the American Journal of Mathematics.[...]

One of Sylvester's lifelong passions was for poetry; he read and translated works from the original French, German, Italian, Latin and Greek, and many of his mathematical papers contain illustrative quotes from classical poetry. In 1870, following his early retirement, Sylvester published a book entitled The Laws of Verse in which he attempted to codify a set of laws for prosody in poetry.
~~~~~~~~

If you read about him he was apparently a very emotional and "out-there" kind of guy; he'd sometimes forget theorems he himself discovered and would "unexpectedly burst into orations or recite poetry, often his own" (http://www.robertnowlan.com/pdfs/Sylvester,%20James%20Joseph.pdf).

More on his life: http://www.maths.ed.ac.uk/~aar/sylv/sylvchap.pdf

Mathematicians have the most interesting biographies of all, somehow. :biggrin:

Interesting guy. His two poems (in the utoronto link) though, were rather bland.
 
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QuarkCharmer said:
I'm with you on this one, I really enjoy reading about the history and lives of mathematicians and physicists. While I don't have an answer to your question, here is a poem by the late, great, Richard Feynman that I enjoy:

Rather bland and contrived too, IMO. Somewhat chauvinistic.

Here's one from a real poet that argues in the other direction;


Dante Gabriel Rossetti (1828-1882)

The House of Life: 73. The Choice, III

Think thou and act; to-morrow thou shalt die
Outstretch'd in the sun's warmth upon the shore,
Thou say'st: "Man's measur'd path is all gone o'er:
Up all his years, steeply, with strain and sigh,
Man clomb until he touch'd the truth; and I,
Even I, am he whom it was destin'd for."

How should this be? Art thou then so much more
Than they who sow'd, that thou shouldst reap thereby?


Nay, come up hither. From this wave-wash'd mound
Unto the furthest flood-brim look with me;
Then reach on with thy thought till it be drown'd.
Miles and miles distant though the last line be,
And though thy soul sail leagues and leagues beyond,--
Still, leagues beyond those leagues, there is more sea.
 
alt said:
Interesting guy. His two poems (in the utoronto link) though, were rather bland.

Hence why the poetry was missing, LOL.
 

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