Maxwell's equations from U(1) symmetry

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on deriving Maxwell's equations from U(1) gauge symmetry, exploring the relationship between the field strength tensor Lagrangian and the equations of electromagnetism. Participants examine both the homogeneous and inhomogeneous pairs of Maxwell's equations, as well as the implications of gauge invariance in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the inhomogeneous pair of Maxwell's equations can be derived from varying the field strength tensor Lagrangian.
  • Others argue that the inhomogeneous equations require an additional term for coupling to charged matter, while the homogeneous equations arise solely from the field tensor Lagrangian.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the introduction of the covariant derivative and the justification for the transformation rules associated with the vector potential.
  • There is a suggestion that the introduction of constants like the elementary charge and Planck's constant may relate to dimensional analysis.
  • One participant emphasizes that the justification for gauge theories stems from their agreement with experimental results, rather than purely logical derivation.
  • Another participant notes that while quantum electrodynamics is an established abelian gauge theory, the exploration of nonabelian gauge theories arose from its success, despite initial challenges in understanding their connections to fundamental interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the derivation of Maxwell's equations and the role of gauge invariance, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved within the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the justification for certain transformation rules and the necessity of specific constants, which may depend on definitions and assumptions not fully articulated in the discussion.

Thoros
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I understand that one is able to derive the inhomogenuous pair of Maxwell's equations from varying the field strength tensor Lagrangian.

Now implying the U(1) gauge invariance, how is one led to the Maxwell's equations?
 
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Thoros said:
I understand that one is able to derive the inhomogenuous pair of Maxwell's equations from varying the field strength tensor Lagrangian [...]

No, the homogenous pair results that way. To get the inhomogenous ones you need to add in a term for coupling to (charged) matter.

[...] Now implying the U(1) gauge invariance, how is one led to the Maxwell's equations?

From a geometric perspective, U(1) is embedded in the field.
 
Sorry about that, you are right about the lagrangian.

From a geometric perspective, U(1) is embedded in the field.

Could you give me a few hints on how to do it explicitly or is this already enough to manage with the task of deriving the equations?

Thanks.
 
Alright so i reached the point where you get an interaction term in the lagrangian density leading to the inhomogenuous pair of Maxwell's equations.

But to me the intrudiction of a covariant derivative is a little confusing. It seems perfectly reasonable to require that physics stay the same under U(1) symmetry. But adding the vector potential and simply implying an ad hoc transformation rule seems unjustifiable. Also, why do we have to add the elementary charge and planks constant to it? Is this required from dimensional analysis?

And from the Wikipedia article i understand, that the homogenuous pair still only arises from the same old field tensor Lagrangian.

Can anyone clear it up for me?

Thanks.
 
Thoros said:
It seems perfectly reasonable to require that physics stay the same under U(1) symmetry. But adding the vector potential and simply implying an ad hoc transformation rule seems unjustifiable.
It is only justified by the fact that we end up with a theory that agrees with experiment. If gauge theories did not agree with experiment, only mathematicians (and not physicists) would care about them.

You cannot derive Maxwell's equations (or any other physical theory) from pure logic. All you can do is find out which theories agree with experiment, and then subsequently notice any cool mathematical features that they might happen to have (such as gauge invariance).

Actually, that's a little too strong. Quantum electrodynamics is an abelian gauge theory, and by 1950 or so it was well established that it agreed with experiment. This success motivated theoretical investigations of nonabelian gauge theories, which ultimately turned out to be relevant for the description of both strong nuclear and weak nuclear interactions (though it took a long time and travel down several wrong roads before the precise connection was understood).
 

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