Meaning of Expectation Values for <x^2> and <p^2> in Classical Mechanics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the interpretation of expectation values and in the context of classical mechanics, particularly regarding their meanings and implications for uncertainty in position and velocity. Participants explore the mathematical definitions and conceptual significance of these values.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that represents the average of the square of the position, with the formula = (1/N) ∑(x_i^2) as N approaches infinity.
  • Others argue that is related to the uncertainty in position, expressed as v^2 = - ^2, where Δx = √( - ^2) represents the square of the uncertainty in position.
  • A participant questions the meaning of and its operator, noting a reference to the average of the square of molecular speeds, , and seeks a geometric or graphical representation.
  • There is a clarification that the average of the square of molecular speeds, , is calculated similarly to , but with velocity replacing position.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the meaning of , with some agreeing on its interpretation as an average value while others remain uncertain about its implications and representations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes approximations and limits related to the number of measurements, with some participants noting that the definitions become exact as N approaches infinity.

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Every quantum mechanical operator has an observable in classical mechanics

<x> - position
...
<x^2> - ?
<p^2> - ?

What is the meaning on these expectation values?

v^2 = <x^2> - <x>^2

What is the meaning of this? edit: It looks to me like uncertainty in position. Is it the average uncertainty in position?

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13characters said:
v^2 = <x^2> - <x>^2

This is the square of the uncertainty in position. That is,

[tex]\Delta x = \sqrt {<x^2> - <x>^2}[/tex]
 
jtbell said:
This is the square of the uncertainty in position. That is,

[tex]\Delta x = \sqrt {<x^2> - <x>^2}[/tex]

That's what i figures too after some digging in the kinetics section of my chem book

cheers.

i still don't get what <x^2> means. What i found was "the average of the square of molecular speeds" but i still don't entirely get why its operator is X^2.

edit: Also is there a ways to represent it geometrically or graphically
 
13characters said:
i still don't get what <x^2> means.

It's simply the average value of the square of the position, in the limit as the number of measurements goes to infinity. If you have N measurements of the position, then

[tex]<x^2> = \frac{1}{N} \sum_{i=1}^N {x_i^2}[/tex]

Actually this is only an approximation. It becomes exact as [itex]N \rightarrow \infty[/itex].

The "average of the square of molecular speeds" would be [itex]<v^2>[/itex], calculated similarly, but with v replacing x.
 
jtbell said:
It's simply the average value of the square of the position, in the limit as the number of measurements goes to infinity. If you have N measurements of the position, then

[tex]<x^2> = \frac{1}{N} \sum_{i=1}^N {x_i^2}[/tex]

Actually this is only an approximation. It becomes exact as [itex]N \rightarrow \infty[/itex].

The "average of the square of molecular speeds" would be [itex]<v^2>[/itex], calculated similarly, but with v replacing x.

i get it now.

thanks.
 
Last edited:

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