Measuring Vorticity in a Rotating Anisotropic Universe

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of measuring vorticity in a potentially rotating universe, exploring theoretical implications and interpretations of observational data, particularly in relation to the WMAP anisotropy power spectrum. Participants examine the nature of rotation, the concept of a background for reference, and the implications of geodesics in spacetime.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question what the universe is rotating with respect to, suggesting that a reference frame is necessary for defining rotation.
  • One participant references the 'axis of evil' observed in the WMAP anisotropy power spectrum, proposing that it could indicate rotation or be explained by weak lensing effects.
  • Another participant raises concerns about whether the universe's rotation would lead to an increase in total energy, questioning how such a rotation could be measured without a background reference.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of 'background' and who could measure total angular momentum in the universe.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the term "ecliptic" as used in a referenced paper, questioning if it refers to a local or universal context.
  • One participant introduces a technical perspective on measuring rotation through the vorticity tensor, explaining how non-zero rotation can be determined from the congruence of geodesics in spacetime.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the universe's rotation and the necessity of a background for measurement. There is no consensus on these points, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of defining rotation without a reference frame, and the implications of observational data may depend on interpretations that are not universally accepted.

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I always want to know what the universe is rotating with respect to?

This paper suggests the rotation shows up as the 'axis of evil' in the low l-mode WMAP anisotopy power spectrum. This axis can also be explained as the result of weak lensing of the CMB dipole by large scale structures in the local universe, see Local pancake defeats axis of evil.

Garth
 
I asked a question some time ago about the possiblity that the universe
may be rotating, but does it need some (back ground) to rotate in respect
to? if it was rotating, would the total energy in the universe increase, i
suspect it must, how could the rotation rate be found? with no (back ground) to refer to.
 
Who determines the 'background'?

Garth
 
Garth said:
Who determines the 'background'?

Garth
Nobody could. And who would be "outside" to measure total angular momentum?
 
Garth said:
I always want to know what the universe is rotating with respect to?

This paper suggests the rotation shows up as the 'axis of evil' in the low l-mode WMAP anisotopy power spectrum. This axis can also be explained as the result of weak lensing of the CMB dipole by large scale structures in the local universe, see Local pancake defeats axis of evil.

Garth
Question for you or anyone. I'm not much of a "Cosmo" guy as I am general astronomy and a bit more on stellar evolution (many would doubt). On the paper you mentioned above, when they say on page one that:
In addition, it is now known that the octopole is highly planar and aligned with the quadrupole (Schwarz et al. 2004; de Oliveira-Costa et al. 2004), and that the planes defined by these multi-poles is perpendicular to both the dipole and the ecliptic.
what do they mean by the term "ecliptic"? Our ecliptic is known to anybody but is there a galactic, local group or supercluster group ecliptic defined that I haven't been aware of? If they mean our ecliptic, it seems too much of a coincidence to be anything but a local effect and local even since the axis (both) point toward the Virgo cluster. On the scale of the universe even the Virgo cluster seems local to me.(?)
 
Consider all the possible (timelike) geodesics for a non-interacting bunch of galaxies in a region of spacetime. These possible geodesics form a congruence, i.e., any event in the region lies on one, and only one, geodesic. Think of flow lines.

Roughly, the universe is rotating everywhere in the region if every geodesic in the congruence rotates about every other geodesic in the congruence. This is measurable. There is non-zero rotation when the the vorticity tensor [itex]\omega_{ab} = \nabla_{\left[ a \right.} U_{\left. b \right]}[/itex] is non-zero

Here:

1) [itex]\nabla[/itex] is the covariant derivative operator;
2) the square brackets denote an anti-symmetrizer;
3) [itex]U[/itex] is th (4-velocity) field of tangent vectors to the geodesics.

Regards,
George
 
Last edited:

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