Expanding Universe - Could It Be Rotating?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the hypothesis that the universe could be rotating instead of expanding, examining implications of such a model and its compatibility with current cosmological principles. Participants consider theoretical frameworks, observational consequences, and the nature of the universe's structure.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the universe could be rotating, suggesting that everything in the universe, from atoms to galaxies, exhibits rotation.
  • Others question the implications of a rotating universe, particularly regarding the existence of a center and the consequences for cosmological models.
  • A participant notes that a rotating universe would not produce the same redshifts, cosmic microwave background (CMB) patterns, or galaxy distributions as observed in the current universe.
  • The Gödel metric is mentioned as a theoretical model of a rotating universe, though it is characterized as a valid solution to General Relativity rather than a realistic depiction of our universe.
  • Some participants express confusion about the implications of a center of the universe, indicating a lack of understanding of how such a concept aligns with the cosmological principle and the isotropy of the universe.
  • Concerns are raised about whether a universe with a center can still conform to General Relativity and what such a universe would look like.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of the universe's expansion or rotation, and the implications of having a center are contested.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the cosmological principle and isotropy, indicating that the discussion is limited by assumptions about the universe's structure and the implications of theoretical models.

zuz
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Instead of expanding, could the universe be rotating? Everything rotates. Atoms, solar systems, galaxys. Could it be that we just can't see enough of the universe to see it's rotation?
 
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zuz said:
Instead of expanding, could the universe be rotating? Everything rotates. Atoms, solar systems, galaxys. Could it be that we just can't see enough of the universe to see it's rotation?
And just what do you think it is rotating AROUND? Do you understand the implications of contending that the universe has a center?
 
zuz said:
Instead of expanding, could the universe be rotating? Everything rotates. Atoms, solar systems, galaxys. Could it be that we just can't see enough of the universe to see it's rotation?

That would not look the same as our present universe does. It would not generate the same redshifts, CMB patterns, galaxy distributions, etc.
 
zuz said:
Instead of expanding, could the universe be rotating? Everything rotates. Atoms, solar systems, galaxys. Could it be that we just can't see enough of the universe to see it's rotation?

There's the Goedel "Rotating" universe. E.g.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel_metric
 
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@zuz it's important to understand that this is merely a valid solution to the equations of General Relativity, and not a realistic model. Per the wiki link given by PeroK:

Besides rotating, this model exhibits no Hubble expansion, so it is not a realistic model of the universe in which we live, but can be taken as illustrating an alternative universe, which would in principle be allowed by general relativity (if one admits the legitimacy of a nonzero cosmological constant).
 
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I guess I don't understand the implications of a center of the universe. That's why I asked the question. What's the problem?
 
zuz said:
I guess I don't understand the implications of a center of the universe. That's why I asked the question. What's the problem?
Google "Cosmological Principle"
 
zuz said:
I guess I don't understand the implications of a center of the universe. That's why I asked the question. What's the problem?

I believe it would go against the idea that the universe is isotropic. That is, we currently believe that the universe is roughly the same in all directions. We don't find large variations in galactic densities or radiation just by looking at a different part of the universe (note that I'm referring to the universe at the largest scales. We obviously find extreme variations at the galactic scale and below). Observations so far have supported the view that the universe is isotropic and homogeneous at the largest scales, which goes against having a center.

Not only that, but I don't know if the universe can have a center and still obey General Relativity, or what it would look like if it can.
 

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