Media's live coverage of the war

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  • #26
kyleb
expressing displeasure with ones words and committing acts of violence are two separate things. i enjoy my right to do the former and do not support the latter by any means.
 
  • #27
russ_watters
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Kyleb, the association here is a STATISTICAL one, not an individual one. It doesn't matter that YOU haven't comitted a violent crime, just that violent crime is statistically linked to violence in media.
 
  • #28
kyleb
oh statistics, how can one argue against that with silly little things like personal experience.

also, 4 out of 5 dentist agree that you are using the wrong toothpaste russ.
 
  • #29
russ_watters
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oh statistics, how can one argue against that with silly little things like personal experience.
Lemme guess. Airplanes scare you. Understanding statistics and statistical analysis is KEY to understanding the meaning of the word "risk." Yes, basing your opinion soley on personal experience IS a silly thing.
 
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  • #30
kyleb
lol, actually i have flown on many an airplane. quite a few of those flights were, back and forth from Europe back in the 80's when i had to consider the possibility that i might get blown out of the sky by a bunch of lunatics as well. also, i never suggested one should base opinion solely on personal experience; only that it is a relevant factor which deserves consideration. also, by personal experience i am not referring solely to myself but others who i have seen first hand; both ones who have seen much violence and do not engage in it as well as others who were generally shielded from witnessing such things yet still act violently upon others.
 
  • #31
amp
Kerrie, you should shield your child, Greg...

refering to your post on page 1... Thats exactly what I thought it was like watching a football game, it felt, looked and seemed surreal. I was thinking are these guys real . I read novels that satarize the media yet I can almost believe that they would film the last drop of blood oozing out of someone not quite mortally wounded rather than offering to help because it wouldn't be as dramatic, while barking questions like "Are you feeling like this is the end?", "What do you think the reaction will be back home when they are notified?" Its ludicrous.
Kerrie, I'm sure you can sympathize with the mothers of the children over in Iraq, who can only comfort their children as best they can under the circumstances. The kids over there will probably be pretty tough when they get older, if they survive.
 
  • #32
Kerrie
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Originally posted by amp

yea we are watching lotsa spongebob these days...
 

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  • #33
Originally written by Kat

(parsed) I think irrelevant of Mr. P's. ranting (snip)

31/03/2003

So Kat, in this I have tried to point out the simplicity of the present reality of TV coverage inasmuch as it took less then 15 mins to present to me all of what you saw over the entire period of time that it took for you to see all of 9/11 on TV, while back in the late twenties, during the Stock Market crash it, took ~four (~4) DAYS for that news to reach Vancouver, British Colombia, Canada.

No longer anywhere near the present reality, and it is a short time, as there are people that are still alive today, who where alive then. This is the difference.

Next we address the need of the Children to know, they must find out, sooner or later, as what is going on now, is now, a part of their American History lessons. Who should it be that tells their children what they now must, and NEED, to know?

I attempted to point out that parental responsibility is irreplaceable, and that no teacher, in any school anywhere, (other then the parental teacher at home) Knows your child better then you, the child's primary caregiver, hence it is clear to me who it is that needs to explain to there children what is gong on, and when they get to know that.

Yes, the 'when' they get to know, is exceedingly difficult, because of the first paragraph.

In all of the observing I do, I have seen that the media, in Canada, are watching the media all over the world, (No doubt that Canadian journalists are not the only ones, but it's what I know of) the media watching the media. Part of the repost told of CNN's coverage of the Bombing of two different marketplaces, one in Baghdad, and the other in Kuwait.

Apparently they spent an inordinate amount of time covering the one in Kuwait, very little on the one in Baghdad, "Clean Hospital shots" (People who look like they might just have the flu) as opposed to the international press having run the clips of the man, from the Baghdad market, on a stretcher, being taken away, showing him with nothing but "bloody stumps" left, where his legs had been. While in the Kuwait Market place attack, apparently, no one was hurt.

Problem here Kat is called propaganda, Your President doesn't want all of you to see, just how bloody, what he is doing, really is. Problem for me Kat is that I am not anti-American, heck American society has taught me lots, so much so that, the problem is now that, I find that what your country is presently doing, tank and artillery siege of Baghdad, with overwhelming Air Superiority, (DOMINANCE) that the Iraq's in that city are completely defenseless against, and Blasting them in a rain of Bombs, is about the most Anti-American, clearly Un-American, thing that I could possible think of, as per what all of you, Americans, have taught me, about yourselves!

Is this a good rant Kat?
 
  • #34
kat
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Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
31/03/2003

So Kat, in this I have tried to point out the simplicity of the present reality of TV coverage inasmuch as it took less then 15 mins to present to me all of what you saw over the entire period of time that it took for you to see all of 9/11 on TV, while back in the late twenties, during the Stock Market crash it, took ~four (~4) DAYS for that news to reach Vancouver, British Colombia, Canada.

No longer anywhere near the present reality, and it is a short time, as there are people that are still alive today, who where alive then. This is the difference.

Next we address the need of the Children to know, they must find out, sooner or later, as what is going on now, is now, a part of their American History lessons. Who should it be that tells their children what they now must, and NEED, to know?

I attempted to point out that parental responsibility is irreplaceable, and that no teacher, in any school anywhere, (other then the parental teacher at home) Knows your child better then you, the child's primary caregiver, hence it is clear to me who it is that needs to explain to there children what is gong on, and when they get to know that.

Yes, the 'when' they get to know, is exceedingly difficult, because of the first paragraph.I couldn't agree more, nor do I think I could have said it any better.

In all of the observing I do, I have seen that the media, in Canada, are watching the media all over the world, (No doubt that Canadian journalists are not the only ones, but it's what I know of) the media watching the media. Part of the repost told of CNN's coverage of the Bombing of two different marketplaces, one in Baghdad, and the other in Kuwait.I honestly avoid T.V. to the extent that I could not give a qualified opinion on what each channel is/is not reporting but I have noticed an incredible amount of comparitive reporting online. I'm glad to see it, however I'm skeptical of all of their motives and which view is objective and/or honest unbiased reporting.

Apparently they spent an inordinate amount of time covering the one in Kuwait, very little on the one in Baghdad, "Clean Hospital shots" (People who look like they might just have the flu) as opposed to the international press having run the clips of the man, from the Baghdad market, on a stretcher, being taken away, showing him with nothing but "bloody stumps" left, where his legs had been. While in the Kuwait Market place attack, apparently, no one was hurt.

Problem here Kat is called propaganda, Your President doesn't want all of you to see, just how bloody, what he is doing, really is. I have some mixed feelings here. I do believe that there is without doubt propaganda in the U.S. news..well in actuality all news. I do my best to compare reports in the media to the first hand news of people I know around the world. Sometimes it correlates at other times it appears as though they must be speaking of two differant worlds. On the other hand, I also believe that U.S. news is effected by ratings and consumer influence, perhaps inordinately. I cannot imagine that there would not be outrage by americans if such graphic displays were put on national television. I would be outraged if anyone I knew where displayed for all the world to see in such a manner. Maybe, I'm mistaken but I do not think I'm the minority view in this matter in the U.S. So, because of this I don't think I can just blame my president. Even if I were to blame someone I would probably look above and beyond him, as I do not think it's the 4 term president that pulls the strings in corporate America. Problem for me Kat is that I am not anti-American, I'm really wanting for a better word then "anti-american" to describe what I see as a singular focus on the united states while totally ignoring equally negative actions of other countries or the ability to excuse other countries for whatever reasons and yet not grant the U.S. that same privelage. This is what I'm referring to when I say "anti-american". heck American society has taught me lots, so much so that, the problem is now that, I find that what your country is presently doing, tank and artillery siege of Baghdad, with overwhelming Air Superiority, (DOMINANCE) that the Iraq's in that city are completely defenseless against, and Blasting them in a rain of Bombs, is about the most Anti-American, clearly Un-American, thing that I could possible think of, as per what all of you, Americans, have taught me, about yourselves! I've stated before my mixed feelings about this war, so I won't get into it here. But, I probably would not use the term "rain" of bombs" to describe a very strong and comparitively (I know this term will make you angry but..) on target bombing campaign that is avoiding..(again..comparitively)...civilians. I'm not sure I would say it's un-american either....

Is this a good rant Kat? I think it was a thoughtful and well reasoned reply. I enjoyed this exchange. Thank you.
 
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  • #35
megashawn
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Live coverage or the next season of Reality Tv?

I mean, its been slipping in under our noses for sometime now. It started with Real World. Then you get survivor, all the clones that follow. Then Court TV makes a dramatic comeback.

This special coverage shows a few things:

1) Technology has come a long ways since previous wars.
2) The day "Running Man" becomes a real show is coming closer.

It seems to me like people honestly enjoy watching. I remember 3/20, when the bombing started. I was walking out the door for work, when I heard what sounded like thunder coming from the TV. I watched and was litterally astonished by what I was seeing. Not the first time I've seen explosions. But the fact that it was live and unedited had me hooked. Then, as I'm watching, I here one of the female anchors describe the scene as "A spectacular display, much like fireworks." almost as if she was commenting of the beauty of the explosions. Since that comment, I've been sick with the coverage.

I cannot speak for how you should raise your child. I, just coming out of childhood, no completly the disadvantages of not being informed. While I've always none people die when we go to war, I was not prepared for the coverage. I know that when I do have children, they will know in full the consequences of war.

If you think about it, there is not much difference between full scale war and a fight between 2 people. One person/government does something that either offends or threatens the other person/goverment and when intelligence breaks down, the only thing left to do is fight. I remember being encouraged to fight other kids during school. I remember being punished for losing fights, rewarded for winning, so long as my reasons were justifable. This is not the way I should have been taught, and fortunatly, I realize this. Unfortunatly, I'm not the only one who was raised this way, including kids I've fought with. Also unfortunate, is that the majority of people do not realize this is a bad way to live ones life. Even religions support such behavior with comments like "Eye for an Eye".

Violence in the media is a bunch of garbage. While it makes me sick to my stomach to view this bs, you cannot blame violence in media, movies or games on the behavior of individuals. Honestly, if seeing disturbing images is enough to make one snap and go kill a bunch of people, there was something wrong long before he/she ever looked at the images. Be it from being raised in similar or worse fashion as described above, or possible mental illness of some sort. Basically what I am saying is you would have to be a moron to see something on TV that you know is wrong/stupid, and go out and try to emulate that act.

Which is why children should not be limited in there education. They should learn about the horrors of war, and even worse, the horrors of the dark streets of there own towns. There is so much corruption, dishonesty, and really, I hate to say it, but terrorism, going on in our own countrys, conducted by our own people, sometimes even ones who hold positions of authority, we really need to look within our own before we continue with any more foriegn conflicts.

They've turned War into Reality TV. Are you really suprised? How about the next survivor be called "Survivor: Bagdad".
 
  • #36
01/04/2003


Originally posted by Kat….sorta!

I have some mixed feelings here. I do believe that there is without doubt propaganda in the U.S. news..well in actuality all news. I do my best to compare reports in the media to the first hand news of people I know around the world. Sometimes it correlates at other times it appears as though they must be speaking of two differant worlds. On the other hand, I also believe that U.S. news is effected by ratings and consumer influence, perhaps inordinately. I cannot imagine that there would not be outrage by americans if such graphic displays were put on national television. I would be outraged if anyone I knew where displayed for all the world to see in such a manner. Maybe, I'm mistaken but I do not think I'm the minority view in this matter in the U.S. So, because of this I don't think I can just blame my president. Even if I were to blame someone I would probably look above and beyond him, as I do not think it's the 4 term president that pulls the strings in corporate America.



So Kat, you don't think that it is your Presidents doing, the aphorism of Mass media News marketing "If it bleeds it leads" is now, for some strange and in-apparent reason, no longer applicable, Why?

That you don't recognize the efforts that are propaganda inclined, especially given the nets ability to ensure that 'somewhere' the story gets out, lends to you having a position that seeks, and wants, for deflection from the reality.

Problem is that all good judgments, are only enabled, when they are derived from the reality in it’s fullest presentation.

They say that the “Truth is the first victim in war” even though I can guarantee that the truth of it is being played out to it’s fullest, without error, or lie, it is only in the recounting of it, that it is victimized, hence the people’s of Iraq suffer that fate from the support that your President is getting, for his war effort, via propaganda.

How Sad.
 
  • #37
Alias
Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
01/04/2003

So Kat, you don't think that it is your Presidents doing, the aphorism of Mass media News marketing "If it bleeds it leads" is now, for some strange and in-apparent reason, no longer applicable, Why?

No offense, but I think that sentence is broken.

That you don't recognize the efforts that are propaganda inclined, especially given the nets ability to ensure that 'somewhere' the story gets out, lends to you having a position that seeks, and wants, for deflection from the reality.

Yup. That one's broke too.

Problem is that all good judgments, are only enabled, when they are derived from the reality in it’s fullest presentation.

Since this is the Physics Forum, I bet we can all agree that thanks to Heisenberg(sp?) the previous statement has no value. (even though it's not broken)

They say that the “Truth is the first victim in war” even though I can guarantee that the truth of it is being played out to it’s fullest, without error, or lie, it is only in the recounting of it, that it is victimized, hence the people’s of Iraq suffer that fate from the support that your President is getting, for his war effort, via propaganda.

You could say that about any leader and any war. What's your point?
 
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  • #38
kyleb
gee, and i was hoping that sense this is Physics Forum, we would not have to deal with such absurd abstractions.
 
  • #39
Alias
Broken, as in 'grammatically incorrect' to the point of rendering the sentence unintelligible.
 
  • #40
russ_watters
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Alias, clearly a sentence fragment is an "abstraction" that is above the understanding of many in this forum.
 
  • #41
kat
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In all seriousness, with absolutely zero sarcasm,
Could someone please translate Mr. Parson's post for me?
 
  • #42
Ahem, the TOPIC is the media's live coverage of the war, the responce that is, is followed by Alias's question;

Originally posted by Alias

You could say that about any leader and any war. What's your point?

Yes, you could, but no, not all of them follow that as a doctrine, and given that the United States penchant for 'a wee spot of bragadoccio', with respect to the "Freedom" of it press, the reality that is televised, as presented, is intentionally being skewed by influences that are not a makeup of the 'past' American Media's "Freedom" in reportage.

Apparenlty something has changed the manner in which your media, the American media, is reporting on this war, as they are clearly not following in their previous footsteps of news journalism that was inclusive of the "If it bleeds, it leads" line.

Now it is simple enough, from the perspective of one who has watched and studied the US extensively, this is NOT the behaviour of America, nor of Americans.

Further to that is this notion that they do not want to show "horriffic pictures" to the American public, you mean like the ones I saw concerning 9/11?? cause I saw quite a few of those.....

Why the difference, now?


(P.S. Alias, russ, quick! your wanted in the "Ask a stupid quention get a stupid answer" forum, RIGHT NOW, SO HURRY!!)



As for the 'grammer', whats that?
 
  • #43
A little side dish.........perhaps?

Just out of curiosity concerning media coverage, how many of you, Americans only, know that your government is presently making statements, here, in the press, in Canada, telling us that we "Should be on your side", that "You would have been there for us", and slipped in is the notion, the alleged suggestion that Canada might just be financially punished (contracts cancelled)for the stance we have taken as an independant country standing for repecting International law.

Curious to know if any Americans know that this is going on,the Canadian media has reported that there is NO coverage of this in the American press.

Anyone?
 
  • #44
kyleb
Originally posted by Alias
Broken, as in 'grammatically incorrect' to the point of rendering the sentence unintelligible.

oh i am sorry, i was reffering to your Heisenberg comment.
 
  • #45
russ_watters
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In all seriousness, with absolutely zero sarcasm,
Could someone please translate Mr. Parson's post for me?
Sorry Kat, I can't seem to find my "Parsons to English" dictionary. I've given up.
 
  • #46
damgo
If you work at Fox News, this isn't Gulf War II -- it's Christmas.
[PLAIN]http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/iraqwarcoverage.html [Broken] - this is funny. Lots of profanity, so caveat lector.
[PLAIN]http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/iraqwarcoverage.html [Broken]
 
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