Misunderstanding a Theorem on Field Homomorphism

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a theorem related to field homomorphisms, specifically focusing on the conditions under which a homomorphism can be extended from a field to a simple extension. Participants explore the necessity and sufficiency of certain conditions, the construction of homomorphisms, and the implications of minimal polynomials in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Post 1 presents the theorem and outlines a proof strategy involving the minimal polynomial and isomorphisms.
  • Post 2 questions the clarity of a proposed homomorphism from a quotient space back to the original space.
  • Post 3 provides a detailed verification of the homomorphism properties, asserting that the mapping is indeed a homomorphism.
  • Post 4 challenges the assumption that the remainder of sums/products behaves as claimed, citing potential counterexamples.
  • Post 5 reiterates doubts about the validity of the remainder property and acknowledges a misunderstanding in the approach to remainders.
  • Post 6 suggests considering a K-algebra homomorphism from K[x] to L and examining its kernel for a shorter proof.
  • Post 8 clarifies the nature of the homomorphism, indicating how it maps elements and powers appropriately.
  • Post 9 summarizes the construction of a homomorphism and its kernel, confirming the approach aligns with the theorem's requirements.
  • Post 10 proposes that determining the kernel precisely is unnecessary, as the inclusion of the minimal polynomial suffices to induce a map.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of certain mappings and properties of homomorphisms. While some agree on the construction of homomorphisms, others raise concerns about specific assumptions and theorems, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their arguments, particularly regarding the assumptions made about the behavior of remainders and the properties of homomorphisms from quotient spaces. These unresolved aspects contribute to the ongoing debate.

Mandelbroth
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Here's the theorem:

Suppose that ##K(\alpha):K## is a finite simple extension, ##\alpha## has minimal polynomial ##m_\alpha\in K[x]##, and ##\phi## is a homomorphism of fields from ##K## into ##L## (which the author extends to a homomorphism from ##K[x]## to ##L[x]##, also denoting it by ##\phi##), with ##\beta\in L##. Then, there exists a (necessarily unique) field homomorphism ##\tau: K(\alpha)\to L## satisfying ##\tau(\alpha)=\beta## and ##\tau|_K=\phi## if and only if ##\phi(m_\alpha)(\beta)=0##.

The author proceeds to prove the necessity of the condition, which is fairly trivial, and the sufficiency, which is less so, but there is (what I consider to be) the intuitive method of showing that ##\phi(m_\alpha)## is the minimal polynomial of ##\beta## over ##\phi(K)## (which is why I thought this way was obvious: it looked like the easiest way), and then proceeding by constructing the desired monomorphism from the isomorphism of ##K[x]/(m_\alpha)\cong \phi(K)[x]/(m_\beta)## via composition with the appropriate isomorphisms induced by the evaluation maps of ##\alpha## and ##\beta##, which the author does.

For the sake of clarity, I'll demonstrate the full argument.

The necessity is satisfied trivially, since ##\phi(m_\alpha)(\beta)=\tau(m_\alpha(\alpha))=\tau(0)=0##.

Sufficiency is satisfied by the following reasoning. Again, we prove that ##m_\beta=\phi(m_\alpha)##, since ##\phi(m_\alpha)## is monic, irreducible, and has a root ##\beta##. Thus, ##(m_\alpha)## is the kernel of (what the author calls) ##q'\circ\tilde{\phi}: K[x]\to \phi(K)[x]\to\phi(K)[x]/(m_\beta)##. Thus, by the First Isomorphism Theorem, ##K[x]/(m_\alpha)\cong \phi(K)[x]/(m_\beta)##. Call this isomorphism ##\tilde{q}## and let ##i:\phi(K)(\beta)\to L## be the inclusion map, ##\tilde{E}_{\alpha}: K[x]/(m_\alpha)\to K(\alpha)## be the isomorphism from the evaluation map, and let ##\tilde{E}_{\beta}## be likewise. Then, clearly, we have the desired monomorphism by noting ##\tau=i\circ\tilde{E}_\beta\circ\tilde{q}\circ\tilde{E}_\alpha^{-1}##. (This is even more obvious if you look at a diagram of this, and I'll draw one if someone requires it.)

The author says there is a shorter proof that does not require us to prove ##\phi(m_\alpha)=m_\beta##. I've been looking at this for about 3 hours, but I don't think I see what he means.

Here's my best candidate for what he meant:

We can construct a homomorphism, which I'll call ##r##, from ##K[x]/(m_\alpha)## to ##K[x]## with kernel ##(m_\alpha)## by mapping each element of ##K[x]/(m_\alpha)## to its remainder when divided by ##m_\alpha##. Clearly, ##r## is injective. We also have injective ##\tilde\phi: K[x]\to\phi(K)[x]## and ##q': \phi(K)[x]\to \phi(K)[x]/(m_\beta)##. Thus, their composition ##q'\circ\tilde{\phi}\circ r## is an injective homomorphism of rings (and, indeed, of fields) from ##K[x]/(m_\alpha)## to ##\phi(K)[x]/(m_\beta)##. We can then call this composition ##\tilde{q}##.

Does that work?
 
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Mandelbroth said:
We can construct a homomorphism, which I'll call ##r##, from ##K[x]/(m_\alpha)## to ##K[x]## with kernel ##(m_\alpha)## by mapping each element of ##K[x]/(m_\alpha)## to its remainder when divided by ##m_\alpha##.

It is not clear (IMO) that this is actually a homomorphism. As a rule of thumb defining maps from a quotient space into the original space should give you pause.
 
jgens said:
It is not clear (IMO) that this is actually a homomorphism. As a rule of thumb defining maps from a quotient space into the original space should give you pause.
Indeed, I was troubled by this when I constructed this argument. We have the following. Let ##\overline{p}=p+(m_\alpha)##, and likewise for the other elements.

$$r(\overline{p}+\overline{q})=p+q=r(\overline{p})+r(\overline{q}) \\ r(\overline{p}\,\overline{q})=r(\overline{pq})=pq=r(\overline{p})r( \overline{q}) \\ r(\overline{1})=1.$$

Thus, it is a homomorphism.
 
That the remainder of a sum/product is the sum/product of remainders reduced modulo the minimal polynomial (if true) requires an argument though. It is by no means obvious. The analogous statement for integers fails, for example, and I have serious doubts that it works in this case too.

Edit: Counterexamples to your claim abound. Let r:Q[x]/(x2-2)→Q[x] be defined as before and assume it is a homomorphism. Then the following computation holds 0 = r(x2-2) = r(x2)-r(2) = r(x)2-r(2) = x2-2 and we arrive at a contradiction.
 
Last edited:
jgens said:
That the remainder of a sum/product is the sum/product of remainders reduced modulo the minimal polynomial (if true) requires an argument though. It is by no means obvious. The analogous statement for integers fails, for example, and I have serious doubts that it works in this case too.
Oh. I've been considering this by taking the remainder before I do the products and sums. I didn't see that. Thank you. :bugeye:

Do you have any ideas for a shorter proof?

Happy New Year, by the way! :biggrin:
 
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Mandelbroth said:
Do you have any ideas for a shorter proof?

There is an obvious K-algebra homomorphism K[x]→L to consider and one need only look at its kernel.
 
jgens said:
There is an obvious K-algebra homomorphism K[x]→L to consider and one need only look at its kernel.
Uhhh...I don't see it. :rolleyes:

Could I have another hint, please? I'm sorry for this. I really should be getting this.
 
The homomorphism takes elements of K into elements of L via φ and takes powers of x into powers of β.
 
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jgens said:
The homomorphism takes elements of K into elements of L via φ and takes powers of x into powers of β.
Thank you. Let's see if I get this.

We have a homomorphism ##j: K[x]\to L## that satisfies ##j|_K=\phi## and takes ##x^n## to ##\beta^n##. Its kernel is clearly ##(m_\alpha)## because ##\phi(m_\alpha)(\beta)=0##, ##m_\alpha## is irreducible, and ##K[x]## is a PID. Thus, we create ##\tilde{j}: K[x]/(m_\alpha)\to L##. Thus, we note that ##\tau=\tilde{j}\circ\tilde{E}_\alpha^{-1}##, because ##\tau|_K=j|_K=\phi## and ##\tilde{j}\circ\tilde{E}_\alpha^{-1}(\alpha)=\tilde{j}(\overline{x})=\beta##.

Does that look right?
 
  • #10
One further simplification: No need to determine the kernel precisely. Clearly mα is contained in the kernel, and therefore, so is the ideal it generates. This is enough to induce a map K[x]/(mα)→L.
 
  • #11
jgens said:
One further simplification: No need to determine the kernel precisely. Clearly mα is contained in the kernel, and therefore, so is the ideal it generates. This is enough to induce a map K[x]/(mα)→L.
Indeed. Thank you very much! You've been very helpful.
 

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