More doubts in perturbation theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenges and nuances of perturbation theory in quantum mechanics, particularly in the context of degenerate states. Participants explore the implications of using incorrect linear combinations of unperturbed states when applying perturbation theory, and the potential consequences on the series expansion for eigenstates and energies.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern about the choice of linear combinations of unperturbed states in the presence of degeneracy, questioning the validity of the series expansion if incorrect states are used.
  • Others argue that using the wrong basis leads to meaningless expressions due to divergences in the energy differences, particularly highlighting the issue with terms like ##(E_1 - E_2)^{-1}##.
  • It is noted that the need to select the "right" basis is specific to perturbation theory, as it involves power series that cannot accommodate jump-discontinuities.
  • Some participants mention that the situation is addressed in "degenerate perturbation theory," which requires diagonalizing the perturbation in the set of degenerate zeroth order states.
  • A participant suggests that degeneracy can be lifted in various ways, using examples from spin systems to illustrate how perturbations can affect convergence of the series.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of the correct choice of basis in perturbation theory, particularly in degenerate cases. However, there is ongoing debate about the implications of using incorrect states and the nature of the series expansion, indicating that multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the definitions of states and the specific conditions under which perturbation theory is applied. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical intricacies involved in the series expansions or the conditions under which they may fail.

Kashmir
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Townsend, quantum mechanics
" In our earlier derivation we assumed that each unperturbed eigenstate ##\left|\varphi_{n}^{(0)}\right\rangle## turns smoothly into the exact eigenstate ##\left|\psi_{n}\right\rangle## as we turn on the perturbing Hamiltonian. However, if there are ##N## states
##
\left|\varphi_{n, i}^{(0)}\right\rangle \quad i=1,2, \ldots, N
## all with the same energy, it isn't clear which are the right linear combinations of the unperturbed states that become the exact eigenstates. For example, in the case of two-fold degeneracy, is it
##
\left|\varphi_{n, 1}^{(0)}\right\rangle \text { and }\left|\varphi_{n, 2}^{(0)}\right\rangle
##
or
##
\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\left(\left|\varphi_{n, 1}^{(0)}\right\rangle+\left|\varphi_{n, 2}^{(0)}\right\rangle\right) \quad \text { and } \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\left(\left|\varphi_{n, 1}^{(0)}\right\rangle-\left|\varphi_{n, 2}^{(0)}\right\rangle\right)
##
or some other of the infinite number of linear combinations that we can construct from these two states? If we choose the wrong linear combination of unperturbed states as a starting point, even the small change in the Hamiltonian generated by turning on the perturbation with an infinitesimal ##\lambda## must produce a large change in the state
1) We find the eigenstate of the total Hamiltonian using the below series ##\begin{aligned}\left|\psi_{n}\right\rangle &=\left|\varphi_{n}^{(0)}\right\rangle+\lambda\left|\varphi_{n}^{(1)}\right\rangle+\lambda^{2}\left|\varphi_{n}^{(2)}\right\rangle+\cdots \\ E_{n} &=E_{n}^{(0)}+\lambda E_{n}^{(1)}+\lambda^{2} E_{n}^{(2)}+\cdots \end{aligned}## What happens if I use the above series expansion for the wrong states? 2) Is it that the states which change abruptly aren't "the exact eigenstates" of the total perturbed Hamilton ?
 
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1) You end up with meaningless expressions since the ##(E_1 - E_2)^{-1}## factors diverge.
2) No, the necessity to choose the "right" basis only arises in perturbation theory because we're looking for a power series in terms of ##\lambda## which cannot approximate jump-discontinuities.
 
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HomogenousCow said:
1) You end up with meaningless expressions since the ##(E_1 - E_2)^{-1}## factors diverge.
2) No, the necessity to choose the "right" basis only arises in perturbation theory because we're looking for a power series in terms of ##\lambda## which cannot approximate jump-discontinuities.
So it is not possible to write the series expansion using"wrong" states ?
 
This case is known as "degenerate perturbation theory" and is discussed in any textbook. Specifically, you first have to diagonalize the perturbation V in the set of degenerate zeroth order states.
 
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DrDu said:
This case is known as "degenerate perturbation theory" and is discussed in any textbook. Specifically, you first have to diagonalize the perturbation V in the set of degenerate zeroth order states.
I'm having confusion reading my textbook 'McIntyre'
 
So try to find another book which fits your way of thinking better :-)
 
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I like the treatment in Sakurai, Modern Quantum Mechanics.
 
Kashmir said:
So it is not possible to write the series expansion using"wrong" states ?
Anyone??
 
Maybe you can think of it like this. This degeneracy can be lifted in several ways. For example, in a spin 1/2 problem, you can add either a sigma_z or a sigma_x term to lift the degeneracy. Assume you take the degenerate case as the limit of a small sigma_z potential tending to 0. Now if you add a sigma_x potential as a real perturbation, the convergence of the series will break down as soon as the term containing sigma_x becomes larger than the term containing sigma_z. In the limit of vanishing sigma_z, the perturbation series will not converge at all.
 

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