More than one camera necessary for movement analysis?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility and accuracy of using a single camera for movement analysis in martial arts, specifically taekwondo, compared to methods that utilize multiple cameras or additional sensors. Participants explore different methodologies, equipment, and the implications for data accuracy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that previous studies have successfully used a single camera for movement analysis, citing two specific papers as examples.
  • Another participant points out the lack of definitions for "movement analysis" and "accurate enough," suggesting that these terms need clarification for a meaningful discussion.
  • Details are provided about the methodologies used in the cited studies, including the equipment and software employed for analysis, raising questions about the equivalence of these methods to those using multiple cameras.
  • One participant expresses a desire to measure taekwondo movements but indicates they are still in the literature review phase and seeking inspiration.
  • Another participant questions the dimensionality of the movement to be recorded, highlighting the complexity of the analysis.
  • A suggestion is made to use mirrors to create multiple perspectives with a single camera, emphasizing the need for careful calibration and lighting to achieve synchronized views.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the effectiveness of using a single camera versus multiple cameras for movement analysis. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding definitions, methodologies, and the adequacy of different approaches.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not defined key terms such as "movement analysis" or "accurate enough," which may impact the clarity of the discussion. There are also unresolved questions about the dimensionality of the movements being analyzed and the specific requirements for accurate measurement.

makamo66
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I found two martial arts papers that used just one camera to analyze movements and the rest of the papers that I viewed either used MOVEN sensors plus software or more than one camera plus triangularization. I would like to use just one camera in conjunction with Kinovea software but I don't know whether it will be accurate enough. These are the two papers that use just one camera:

1) Inseong Hwang 1987 Analysis of the kicking leg in taekwondo
He's a physical education student
LINK TO PDF: https://ojs.ub.uni-konstanz.de/cpa/article/view/1500

2) Rathee/Magnes/Davis 2014
They're two professors and a graduate research scholar
Kinematics of Board Breaking in Karate using Video Analysis
LINK TO PDF: https://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/article/view/3185
 
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Neither "movement analysis" nor "accurate enough" are defined in your question.
 
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I guess it's not a simple question. The first experimenter Hwang used a DP-114 digitizer and IBM micro computer (IBM XI) to quantitatively analyze the films. The second experimenters used Logger Pro software. Therefore, I would have to look into these additional pieces of equipment to find out whether it's equivalent with experiments using more than one camera.

1) Hwang:
3 Taekwondo athletes were filmed while they performed the front kick with and without a target.
A motion analyzer which developed in Yonsei University by interfacing DP-114 digitizer and IBM micro computer (IBM XI) was used to quantitatively analyze the films. Horizontal (x) and vertical (y) coordinates were recorded for. the hip joint, knee joint, ankle joint and metatarsophalangal joint of the kicking leg. These coordinates were then smoothed using Second-Order L0I1-Pass Digital Filtering (Winter, 1979).
The net muscular torques acting about the hip, knee. and ankle joints were then calculated using Newtonian equations of motion. The required body segment parameters were estimated from data published by Dempster (1955).2) Rathee/Magnes/Davis:
2 Karate athletes were filmed by a high speed camera in the sagittal plane.
They punched at a wooden board held by their instructor Hanshi at the level between their central point and xiphoid processes which is the standard target area for a straight punch. The board was positioned to ensure that the fist would strike the target with the forearm parallel with the ground, and perpendicular to the camera angle. Kinematic data were then transferred into a computer and analyzed through "Logger-pro" software.
 
What specifically do you want to find out when you have finished?
 
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I want to measure some taekwondo movement but I'm still reviewing the literature and waiting for inspiration.
 
makamo66 said:
I want to measure some taekwondo movement but I'm still reviewing the literature and waiting for inspiration.
That is a three dimensional movement, but what is exactly the number of dimensions you need to record?
 
If your camera has sufficient resolution, could you place several big mirrors behind / above target to provide perspective views ?? Think dance-salle's mirrored walls...

Yes, you would have to light and calibrate carefully, but you get synchronised, multi-angled views without worrying about time-stamps, latency etc etc.

( Why does Windows make it so hard to distinguish between multiple USB web-cams ?? )
 
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