Moving through Air, Dust, and Solid Objects with Warp Drive

[Jarvis323]

What would happen if you tried to fly through obstacles using warp drive? Distorting space so that two points are closer wouldn't get around the fact that there might be obstacles (e.g. air molecules, space dust, empire destroyers) that you would bump into along the way right. Would all of that stuff appear more densely packed along the direction you compressed space-time? In your reference frame, you could be going through it all very slowly right, with little inertia? So what would it be like if you tried using warp drive to travel along a path with such obstacles? Are there any good sci-fi books that have addressed this issue in depth?

 

[MikeeMiracle]

In the Star Trek universe this is the purpose of the Main Deflector, it is supposed to remove dust and other very small objects out of the way. I don't think you could actually fly "through" anything.

 

[Jarvis323]

In the Star Trek universe this is the purpose of the Main Deflector, it is supposed to remove dust and other very small objects out of the way. I don't think you could actually fly "through" anything.

I could be wrong, but I imagine you wouldn't need to worry much about the danger of crashing into things, because you wouldn't actually be moving very fast in your reference frame, the things in front of you would just be closer to you. Upon running into something, you might be able to slowly push through it, or move around it? For example, moving through air might be like moving through molasses? Moving through outer space, it might seem really dusty? And objects would appear warped and very thin? Running into the empire destroyer would be like running into a really heavy photograph?

 

[phinds]

What would happen if you tried to fly through obstacles using warp drive?

Since it's fiction you can make up whatever rationale you like. "Main Deflector" sounds good.

 

[Jarvis323]

Since it's fiction you can make up whatever rationale you like. "Main Deflector" sounds good.

Not if it's hard scifi though.

 

[Algr]

'Ain't no sci fi hard enough!

Really, any sci fi with faster than light travel is going to have to make SOMETHING up.

 

[phinds]

Not if it's hard scifi though.

Jeez, you think Star Trek is hard sci-fic? Seriously? Maybe compared to, for example, Star Wars, but not really.

 

[MikeeMiracle]

Not sure how accurate if at all the following analogy is, when I had warp drive explained to me in simple terms it was to imagine a surfer in the sea. If the surfer could control the water it would be like the rear of the surf board could lift the water behind it and the front of the surfboard could lower the water in front of it. The surf board would then "ride" on this constant "wave." If this is in any way accurate then you would be able to go through anything.

Using warp drive you are expanding the space behind you and shrinking the space in front of you causing a similar effect.

 

[Algr]

Jeez, you think Star Trek is hard sci-fic? Seriously? Maybe compared to, for example, Star Wars, but not really.

No, I don't. Any Sci Fi is going to soften over time, as it's concepts get outdated. Blade Runner looks pretty silly these days with it's CRT screens showing 8-bit graphics.

 

[DrStupid]

What would happen if you tried to fly through obstacles using warp drive?

In Star Wars it depends on the script. Admiral Holdo can lightspeed another ship to death but Han Solo can go to lightspeed within another ship without causing any damage. The question is what should happen and the answer is nothing. Destroying a ship using FTL raises the question why this is not used as a weapon all the time. It is the same trap that Star Trek fell into with the transporter. They are always forced to come up with reasons why they don't work under certain conditions. The best way to avoid this problem is making FTL ships not interacting with non FTL obstacles.

 

[shjacks45]

What would happen if you tried to fly through obstacles using warp drive? Distorting space so that two points are closer wouldn't get around the fact that there might be obstacles (e.g. air molecules, space dust, empire destroyers) that you would bump into along the way right. Would all of that stuff appear more densely packed along the direction you compressed space-time? In your reference frame, you could be going through it all very slowly right, with little inertia? So what would it be like if you tried using warp drive to travel along a path with such obstacles? Are there any good sci-fi books that have addressed this issue in depth?

"Tau Zero" by Poul Anderson
what if you went so fast you survived the next big bang.

 

[stefan r]

Not sure how accurate if at all the following analogy is, when I had warp drive explained to me in simple terms it was to imagine a surfer in the sea. If the surfer could control the water it would be like the rear of the surf board could lift the water behind it and the front of the surfboard could lower the water in front of it. The surf board would then "ride" on this constant "wave." If this is in any way accurate then you would be able to go through anything.

Using warp drive you are expanding the space behind you and shrinking the space in front of you causing a similar effect.

If a surfboard encounters another surf board they both slip into the same dip.

 

[stefan r]

I could be wrong, but I imagine you wouldn't need to worry much about the danger of crashing into things, because you wouldn't actually be moving very fast in your reference frame, the things in front of you would just be closer to you. Upon running into something, you might be able to slowly push through it, or move around it? For example, moving through air might be like moving through molasses? Moving through outer space, it might seem really dusty? And objects would appear warped and very thin? Running into the empire destroyer would be like running into a really heavy photograph?

Could you scoop that molasses?

Could we bulldozer warp through planets? That would make mining Neptune much easier. The photo paper thin layer in front of the dozer blade would pop out into a column 49,000 km long. That could probably be weaponized too.

Would be rather embarrassing for diplomats. The ship arrives and puffs out 4 light years of dust accumulation. Disrupts the climate and sets off accelerated Kessler syndrome.

 

[Nik_2213]

Space and very thin gas might get out of the way of an Alcubierre Drive, but I seriously doubt that significant mass would without, at best, seriously straining the 'warp field integrity'...

Which is why my hard-ish Convention SciFi tales invoke a 'Vernon Preventer' which sort of holds everything together just long enough to get clear of not-too-big stuff. Conversely, faced with the xenocidal Others' marauding 'battlecruiser' Tagglis and 'Oh-Sh**t' BMFs, they weaponised such tech to deliver massive doses of Cherenkov radiation, zapping crew, EMPing IT and de-stabilising the Others' anti-matter fuel confinement...

 

[jbriggs444]

"Tau Zero" by Poul Anderson
what if you went so fast you survived the next big bang.

As I recall, Poul started that one being real worried about small, high speed obstructions that were dangerous precisely because of their high relative speed and then *abra cadabra* switched frames of reference so that obstructions are safe precisely because of the high relative speed.

Lost immersion in the story because of that plot impossibility.

 

[Nik_2213]

Ah, yes: The ship became so massive that it could have smacked planets and small stars aside like bugs on wind-shield...

( By the time they'd reached that speed, all the truly massive stars had died like so many mayflies. Plus, they'd steered via inter-galactic void for safety... )

At low speed, you could steer around hazards. At sufficiently high speed, there were no significant hazards beyond time-dilation and the visibly ageing universe. It was the region in between that could kill...

IIRC, despite the 'Huh ?' factor, the math was sort of okay. But I really, really would not care to trust my life to it...

IMHO, I don't think he knew of, or allowed for 'Black Holes', especially 'Galactic Centre' monsters...

 

[hmmm27]

Bill, the Galactic Hero - Bloater Drive

 

[chemisttree]

Since it's fiction you can make up whatever rationale you like. "Main Deflector" sounds good.

In some episodes (like “The Outrageous Okona”) the deflector is referred to as the ‘Navigational Deflector’.