Natural parametrization of a curve

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the natural parametrization of a geodesic curve on the surface defined by the equation z=x^2+y^2, specifically one that passes through the origin with given initial conditions. Participants explore various parametrizations and mathematical expressions related to arc length and the relationship between the parameters.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Eva requests the natural parametrization of a geodesic curve on the surface z=x^2+y^2, starting from the origin with specific initial conditions.
  • One participant describes a parametrization using a variable ξ and provides a mathematical expression for the arc length s(ξ), suggesting a method to derive the geodesic curve.
  • Another participant attempts a different parametrization involving polar coordinates and derives a similar expression for arc length, but struggles to express r as a function of s for natural parametrization.
  • There is a discussion about the difficulty of calculating r(s) from the derived expression s(r), indicating the complexity of the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing approaches to the problem, with no consensus on how to derive r(s) from the existing equations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best method to achieve the natural parametrization.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the challenges in deriving r(s) from s(r), indicating potential limitations in their current approaches and the complexity of the mathematical relationships involved.

eva_92
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Hello,
I need the natural parametrization or a geodesic curve contained in the surface z=x^2+y^2, that goes through the origin, with x(s=0)=0, y(s=0)=0, dx/ds (s=0)=cos(a) and dy/ds(s=0)=sin(a), with "a" constant, expressed as a function of the arc length, i.e., I need r(s)=r(x(s),y(s)).
Thank you very much!
Eva
 
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Hi. The surface is made by rotating the graph of ##z=x^2## around z axis. The shortest curve between the Origin and Point ##(X,Y,Z)## on the surface is presented by parameter ##\xi## as ##(X \xi,Y \xi,Z\xi^2)## where ##Z=X^2+Y^2,0<\xi<1##.

ds^2=X^2 d\xi^2 + Y^2 d\xi^2 + (X^2+Y^2)^2 4\xi^2 d\xi^2=(X^2 + Y^2)[ (X^2+Y^2)4\xi^2+1 ]d\xi^2
s(\xi)=\sqrt{X^2 + Y^2} \int_0^\xi \sqrt{ (X^2+Y^2)4\eta^2+1}\ d\eta
After calculating ##s(\xi)## you can get its inverse ##\xi(s)## and thus get ##(X\xi(s),Y\xi(s),Z\xi(s)^2)## as geodesic from Origin to end point (X,Y,Z) expressed by parameter s, the length from Origin.
 
Last edited:
Hello, thank you for the answer. I have tried with the parametrization x=rcos(a), y=rsin(a), z=r^2, reaching to a similar expression: ds^2=1+4*r^2 (similar to yours with X=cos(a), Y=sin(a)). The solution is s = (1/4)*ln⁡(2*r+sqrt(1+4*r^2))+(1/2)*r*sqrt(1+4*r^2), which is an equation in which I can not calculate r as a function of s to perform the natural parametrization. This is the reason of my question, maybe another parametrization could work, buy it does not happen to me. Could you help me with this?
 
You show points on geodesic
(r \cos a, r \sin a, r^2 )
where ##0<r<R## corresponding to the end point and
s = \frac{1}{4}ln⁡(2r+\sqrt{1+4r^2})+\frac{1}{2}r\sqrt{1+4r^2}
I would like to know what more you want.
 
Last edited:
The idea is to write x,y,x as a function of s, i.e., x(s),y(s),z(s). If I can calculate r(s), then I can write x(r(s)),y(r(s)),z(r(s)), but I can't calculate r(s) from that equation
 
I am afraid it is a tough thing to get the formula of r(s) from s(r) formula.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_2020-12-20 inverse function of s = (1 4) ln⁡(2 r+sqrt(1+4 r^2))+(1 2) r sqrt(1+4 r^...png
    Screenshot_2020-12-20 inverse function of s = (1 4) ln⁡(2 r+sqrt(1+4 r^2))+(1 2) r sqrt(1+4 r^...png
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