NMR Spectroscopy: Butane in Magnetic Field & Hydrogen Alignment

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the behavior of hydrogen atoms in butane when subjected to an external magnetic field in the context of NMR spectroscopy. Participants explore the alignment of hydrogen spins, the effects of temperature on spin populations, and the implications for NMR signal detection.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether 50% of hydrogen atoms align parallel and 50% antiparallel in a magnetic field, suggesting that the actual population depends on temperature and energy differences.
  • It is proposed that at absolute zero, only the lowest energy state is populated, while at room temperature, a fraction of the higher energy state is also populated, influenced by statistical mechanics.
  • Concerns are raised about the degeneracy of energy levels in organic molecules before the application of a magnetic field, with references to ortho and para hydrogen as examples.
  • Some participants argue that the strong magnetic fields used in NMR (10-15 T) may overshadow any molecular structural effects on spin preferences.
  • There is a discussion about the energy differences between spin orientations in methane, with some suggesting that while differences may be small, they are not negligible.
  • One participant mentions nuclear hyperfine splitting in paramagnetic systems, noting that it is typically not considered in NMR.
  • Another point raised is the averaging out of nuclear-spin dipole coupling due to molecular motion, with implications for measuring relative locations of nuclei through the Nuclear Overhauser Effect.
  • It is suggested that the population distribution of spin states at room temperature is very close to 50-50%, with a very slight preference for one state over the other.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the classification of energy states without a magnetic field and the conditions under which NMR signals can be generated.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the alignment of hydrogen spins and the effects of temperature and molecular structure on energy states. There is no consensus on the exact population distribution or the significance of energy differences in various contexts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on temperature and the assumptions regarding molecular behavior in magnetic fields. The discussion also highlights unresolved questions about the influence of molecular structure on spin preferences.

cnidocyte
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When a molecule, let's say butane is placed in an external magnetic field and its hydrogens align parallel or antiparallel to the direction of the magnetic field, do 50% of the H atoms align parallel to the B field and the other 50% align antiparallel or what? If so, when they radio waves are applied would it only be the 50% of the H atoms that are aligned parallel that would be flipped to a higher energy level and recorded by the spectrometer?
 
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Can't help you much, but you may want to read about relaxation in NMR spectroscopy.
 
cnidocyte said:
When a molecule, let's say butane is placed in an external magnetic field and its hydrogens align parallel or antiparallel to the direction of the magnetic field, do 50% of the H atoms align parallel to the B field and the other 50% align antiparallel or what? If so, when they radio waves are applied would it only be the 50% of the H atoms that are aligned parallel that would be flipped to a higher energy level and recorded by the spectrometer?

No, it depends on the temperature.

In a magnetic field, the degeneracy of the two energy level is removed, so one will be higher than the other. The lower energy level (spin parallel to the field) will tend to be more populated than the other. How much the higher state is populated depends on the temperature of the material. This means that as 0K, only the lowest state is populated. At room temperature, a fraction of the higher state is populated. How much it is populated depends on the energy difference and the temperature, i.e. statistics.

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
In a magnetic field, the degeneracy of the two energy level is removed, so one will be higher than the other.

I wonder - in the case of organic molecules, are they really degenerated before magnetic field is applied? After all, it is a little bit like ortho and para hydrogen - they differ enough to be separated. Sure, hydrogen is a specific case, so the difference can be much more pronounced, but is there any reason for the energy difference to disappear in more complicated molecules?
 
The magnetic fields applied in NMR are around 10 - 15 T, which is enormously strong compared to spin magnetic fields in molecules. I don't think the molecular structure has any measurable effect on the spin preference of protons. At least I can't find anything about it on Google.
 
Methane molecule has 3 possible spin orientations - do you think each of them has the same energy? I think not. Could be differences are small enough to be negligible, but at least they should be possible to estimate.
 
Borek said:
I wonder - in the case of organic molecules, are they really degenerated before magnetic field is applied? After all, it is a little bit like ortho and para hydrogen - they differ enough to be separated.

Yes, there exists a "nuclear hyperfine splitting" if the electronic system is paramagnetic. But AFAIK they don't usually need to take it into account in NMR.
Borek said:
Methane molecule has 3 possible spin orientations - do you think each of them has the same energy? I think not. Could be differences are small enough to be negligible, but at least they should be possible to estimate.

Well, what happens is that the nuclear-spin dipole coupling averages out to zero, because the molecules are all moving and rotating relative the magnetic field. But you can indirectly measure it through the Nuclear Overhauser Effect, hence giving you information about the relative locations of the nuclei (since the spin polarization is obviously distance-dependent). This is the basis of structural NMR methods.

To answer the original question: Yes, the populations are very near 50-50% at room temperature; as the energy difference is very small. As you said, the splitting is in the radio-wave region - which region of the spectrum do you associate with heat? (This is a blessing in disguise; at higher energies the NMR signal would likely have been drowned out by thermal noise. As it is, there's relatively little going on in that region of the spectrum) NMR spectrometers are just very sensitive. We're talking about a population distribution of 50.001%-49.999% or around that order.
 
Last edited:
Borek, yes, even without magnetic field, there are states of different energy. Without a magnetic field, these states can be classified by total Spin S. The radio frequency field cannot induce transitions between states with different S but only between states differing in M_S. However, the states with same S and different M_S are degenerate, so no NMR signal will result. An even more fundamental reason is the time reversal invariance of the Hamiltonian of the system without magnetic field which guarrantees that to every possible transition there exists an equally probable transition in the other direction.
 

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