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No such thing as Free Will or Destiny?

  1. Sep 17, 2007 #1
    I would just like to introduce myself, as I am new to this forums, someone linked me to it from youtube.com. I was wanting to share one of my philosophy "theories" with you guys, who will probably rip it to threads, due to it just being a rough draft idea I came up with while thinking one day. Anyway, let's get straight to the point, here is my rough draft idea which I call "Chance-Destiny Theory":

    http://dratsab.deviantart.com/art/Chance-Destiny-Theory-57605934

    I am not a greatly knowledgeable person on scientific/philosophy subjects, so I don't want you guys to think this is some divine truth I have discovered, I just wanted to get thoughts on it. So far the people who have disagreed with this theory from other forums did so because I mis-worded some of the rough draft. What I'm basically saying is we have two scenarios: A) We share similar brain thoughts thus our only influence is people around us, or B) We were born with different brain functions, thus we had no control over how we are going to be different. I hope you understand my logic.

    Hope the people here aren't as hostile about this as some places I have posted this...

    While I'm at it, I would like to throw in my Solipsism draft, which isn't really as thought provoking, and doesn't deserve it's own topic:

    http://dratsab.deviantart.com/art/Solipsism-Link-57897362
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 26, 2007 #2
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
  4. Sep 27, 2007 #3

    PFS

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    just a thouht...

    Interesting theory…

    However, it is very important to note that we (human beings) living on earth are the only known intelligence that has free will. Our responsibility (ability to choose our response) and the way we respond (our choice) is decidedly determined by past experiences etc. however it is our conscience that makes the difference, animals have no conscience and thus have no choice to make they react 100% instinctively and bare no conscious consequences based on their actions

    Humans however have a conscience and have the ability to make decisions based purely in free will.

    Our only inhibiting factor is our brain
    We have three brains:
    Unconscious brain (takes care of all your bodily functions, breathing etc.)
    Subconscious brain (the brain you are allowing to control you)
    Conscious brain (the brain you think is in control)

    Human beings are essentially creators; we create every day, and in all ways, based on our thoughts and the choice to act on a thought.

    Our subconscious brain can be seen is an infinitely powerful 5 year old that has one sole job, and that is to keep us safe and happy. It will accept anything you continuously and consciously tell it and then based on that will start reacting instinctively.

    We have to take back out “power” from the subconscious brain by understanding that we have free will and that we can override any “instinctive” actions made by the subconscious.

    Example, consciously we know that smoking is bad for your health, yet subconsciously we crave the nicotine, because the “nicotine/addiction” is thought of as a good thing by the subconscious because it makes us feel better/relaxed etc.

    However the fact remains that we do have the power to make any thought a reality, we most definitely are the makers and shapers of our own destiny and “fate” is only there as a medium used for balance.

    This is due to the fact that we live in a dualistic universe (north south, black white) and balance is key, we are given the ability to make choices, and based on those choices we will experience the directing result (good/ bad) in essence if you look at what humans have created over the past 2,000 years we are creators of our own destiny, our thoughts and the “actioned” thoughts of the past shape our world and or current perception of the world. it is also important to understand that you and I both see the world based on all the preconceived ideas instilled as we grew up, but it is your choice to conform to these pre-conceived ideas and thus act (reactively/instinctively/unconsciously) or to start breaking free and make decisions based on your choice/free will your choice to stop acting reactively and start acting consciously

    The only (and I don’t say this lightly) thing we have to do is to take control of our subconscious brains.

    Regarding similar brains, it is true the functions the material existence of the brain is the same for all humans, however inside the brain we are all very different based on our past experiences and choices made. Basically the brain and our instinctive choices made are based on a neural network that (as we grow older, have more experiences) fire in an intricate manner and fire together. It is true that we are influenced by those around us. The way our brain/subconscious reacts to any given situation is purely based on past experiences, dogmatic control system we are subjected to, teachers, parents and social surrounding's, however the final chosen response to any decision is left solely to the individual making the choice.

    You cannot say that the choice to take out a gun and kill someone is based on those around you, ultimately if this happens, you thought the thought, you made the choice to act ad you pulled the trigger, therefore you are responsible. The problem with humanity today is people’s general unwillingness to take responsibility for their actions. It is easier to blame someone/something ells than take the time and effort to empower yourself with the knowledge necessary to take control of your life.

    Regarding being different from one another all you need to do is take a look around, the world is filled with a multitude of different people, different religions, beliefs, business sectors, sports. We are not the same our brains all fire differently we have different wants and needs and pleasures based on our unique perception of these factors. How anyone can think that we are the same id beyond me.

    We do, to a certain degree; plug into the “collective conscious” but out uniqueness is our own ability to choose.

    You refer to God as not being able to have a mind frame, the problem with this theory is due to Humans inability to comprehend the unknown and as a result we star to conceptualize these types of things. God is referred to as “ineffable” beyond conception and understanding, so why try box the Creator? Why would an Entity (all knowing) need experience? Is our planet earth not perfect in its balance and symmetry and science? The earth (undisturbed by humans) would exist forever in perfect harmony, it is the perfect creation! We in our limited understating of the earth intricate relationships ignorantly destroy it for personal gain. But the earth as its own entity is perfectly made. From gravity to electromagnetic protection to the ionosphere to the ozone layer write down to photosynthesis and the creation of air and water to enable life (you) to exist…

    Again it your choice to think about what I have said, or it is your choice to discount it out of hand, I would strongly recommend you watch (what the bleep do we know) a movie on quantum physics before making any decisions.
     
  5. Sep 27, 2007 #4
    ==Again it your choice to think about what I have said, or it is your choice to discount it out of hand, I would strongly recommend you watch (what the bleep do we know) a movie on quantum physics before making any decisions.==

    Ohh, I've seen it, it's pretty good. I don't really remember it having any relevance to my subject though... but it has been a while since I have seen it.

    ==You refer to God as not being able to have a mind frame, the problem with this theory is due to Humans inability to comprehend the unknown and as a result we star to conceptualize these types of things. God is referred to as “ineffable” beyond conception and understanding, so why try box the Creator?==

    Well, when most people debate god, they have various definitions of god, I've seen many people ask in a debate "define god". To me, god is simply defined as "creator of the universe" that is it. I don't really consider him/it to be a sentient being. God is only outside our comprehension right now because A) we don't know if he/it exists and B) we don't know if he is sentient or not.

    ==How anyone can think that we are the same id beyond me.==

    Basically what I meant was "either we are the same, or we can't control being different". I didn't actually mean that we are exactly the same, only shaped by environment, I meant that either way, how can we be blamed for our actions?

    ==The problem with humanity today is people’s general unwillingness to take responsibility for their actions. It is easier to blame someone/something ells than take the time and effort to empower yourself with the knowledge necessary to take control of your life.==

    Well the thing is, with my theory no one can be blamed. A child can't blame his mother for being a bad parent, because it wasn't her fault she was a bad parent due to her upbringing, and she can't blame society for that, because they were also brought up by bad environment... and this continues.

    ==It is true that we are influenced by those around us. The way our brain/subconscious reacts to any given situation is purely based on past experiences, dogmatic control system we are subjected to, teachers, parents and social surrounding's, however the final chosen response to any decision is left solely to the individual making the choice.==

    I just found out about a similar view yesterday that should help you understand my point of view more:

    http://www.google.com/search?client...hl=en&q=define:determinism&btnG=Google+Search

    ==However the fact remains that we do have the power to make any thought a reality, we most definitely are the makers and shapers of our own destiny and “fate” is only there as a medium used for balance.==

    Like I said in the video/rough draft, I said I neither believe in free will NOR fate. Fate defined as someone (god) setting an ultimate path for you. I believe due to nature evolving our brains, and technology always advancing as time moves on, the laws of nature have set forth a "fate" of us continually becoming more knowledgeable, having higher intelligence, and coming closer to our dreams.
     
  6. Sep 27, 2007 #5
    It is your "free will" that determines the coarse(ness) of your "destiny"
     
  7. Sep 27, 2007 #6
    I don't understand what you are implying.
     
  8. Sep 27, 2007 #7
    Means the same thing as I said.
     
  9. Sep 27, 2007 #8
    To me it just sounds like rhetoric that has no substance... if you have free will, how can you have a destiny? Are you saying that the results of your free will was fate? I support neither "god planned" fate nor free will. I believe the natural laws of the universe will control everything you do... natural law created your brain, can it not manipulate it as well?
     
  10. Sep 27, 2007 #9
    Hold on i'm eating a bowl of cereal that is my "free will"
    My "destiny" on this subject is to give you a concise answer.

    Whether or not my free will has intereferred with the objective answer to this question we will see.
     
  11. Sep 27, 2007 #10
    Ok,

    Destiny - the end path of a concious or unconcious decision, primarily the basis of one's life goals and objectives.

    Free Will - Everything leading up to your destiny - Good or dad decisions based on an infinate number or factors relating to a situation at hand.

    So the way I see it, it's apple and oranges.
     
  12. Oct 2, 2007 #11
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