Noetherian Modules - Bland, Example 3, Section 4.2 ....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on understanding Example 3 from Section 4.2 of Paul E. Bland's book "Rings and Their Modules," specifically regarding Noetherian and Artinian modules. Participants seek clarification on the nature of certain vector spaces defined in the example and the relationships between them.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter asks for clarification on the nature of the vector space ##V_1## and how the inclusions ##V_1 \subseteq V_2 \subseteq V_3## are established.
  • One participant defines ##V_1## as the set of elements formed by multiplying the first basis element ##x_{\alpha_1}## by elements of a division ring ##D##.
  • It is noted that the direct sum referred to is an internal direct sum, with a definition provided for ##V_n## as a sum of elements from the basis indexed by a countable subset ##\Gamma##.
  • There is a critique of the author's notation for indexing the basis elements, suggesting that a simpler notation could enhance clarity.
  • Peter questions the assumption that the basis is countable, pointing out that if the basis set ##\Delta## is uncountably infinite, it may not have a first element, which could complicate the understanding of the basis.
  • A later reply acknowledges the clarification needed regarding the indexing of the basis and agrees to correct the earlier statement about the first element.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the clarity of the author's notation and the implications of the countability of the basis set. There is no consensus on the best approach to notation or the implications of the basis being potentially uncountable.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the countability of the basis set ##\Delta## and its implications for the indexing of elements in ##\Gamma##. The discussion reflects uncertainty about how these factors affect the understanding of the vector spaces defined in the example.

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I am reading Paul E. Bland's book "Rings and Their Modules" ...

Currently I am focused on Section 4.2 Noetherian and Artinian Modules ... ...

I need some help in order to fully understand Example 3, Section 4.2 ...

Example 3, Section 4.2 reads as follows:
Bland - Example 3, Section 4.2 ... .png

My questions are as follows:Question 1

Can someone please explain/illustrate the nature of ##V_1## ... ?
Question 2

Can someone please demonstrate exactly how ##V_1 \subseteq V_2 \subseteq V_3 \subseteq## ...
Help will be appreciated ...

Peter
 

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$$V_1\triangleq x_{\alpha_1}D\triangleq \{x_{\alpha_1}d\ :\ d\in D\}$$
and recall that ##x_{\alpha_1}## is the first element of the set ##\Gamma## and 'scalar' multiplication of module elements by division-ring elements occurs on the right.

The direct sum referred to is an internal direct sum.

For ##n\geq 1## we have:

$$V_n \triangleq \bigoplus_{k=1}^n x_{\alpha_k} D
\triangleq \left\{\sum_{k=1}^n x_{\alpha_k}d_k\ :\ \forall k\ (d_k\in D)\right\}$$

To see that ##V_{n}\subset V_{n+1}## observe that ##V_n## is just the set of elements of ##V_{n+1}## with ##d_{n+1}=0_D##.

I can't help adding that it strikes me as unfortunate that the author uses this (in my opinion) ugly method of double-indexing the elements of ##\Gamma##, as ##x_{\alpha_i}##. It is much cleaner and less confusing to make ##\Delta## the basis, rather than an index set for a basis, and just write ##x## for an arbitrary element of the basis, and ##x_i## for an element of the countable subset ##\Gamma## of the basis set. With the double-indexing it is harder to read, harder to conceptualise and it takes longer to write the latex code.
 
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andrewkirk said:
$$V_1\triangleq x_{\alpha_1}D\triangleq \{x_{\alpha_1}d\ :\ d\in D\}$$
and recall that ##x_{\alpha_1}## is the first element of the basis and 'scalar' multiplication of module elements by division-ring elements occurs on the right.

The direct sum referred to is an internal direct sum.

For ##n\geq 1## we have:

$$V_n \triangleq \bigoplus_{k=1}^n x_{\alpha_k} D
\triangleq \left\{\sum_{k=1}^n x_{\alpha_k}d_k\ :\ \forall k\ (d_k\in D)\right\}$$

To see that ##V_{n}\subset V_{n+1}## observe that ##V_n## is just the set of elements of ##V_{n+1}## with ##d_{n+1}=0_D##.

I can't help adding that it strikes me as unfortunate that the author uses this (in my opinion) ugly method of double-indexing his basis, as ##x_{\alpha_i}##. It is much cleaner and less confusing to just write ##x_i## if the index set ##\Delta## is known to be countable, and ##x_\alpha## with ##\alpha \in\Delta## where ##\Delta## is not known to be necessarily countable. With the double-indexing it is harder to read, harder to conceptualise and it takes longer to write the latex code.
Thanks for the help and guidance Andrew ...

But ... just a clarification ...

You write:

" ... ... ##x_{\alpha_1}## is the first element of the basis ... ... "

But the basis is ##\{ x_\alpha \}_\Delta## not ##\{ x_\alpha \}_\Gamma## ... ##\alpha_1## is the first element of the index set ##\Gamma## ...

Isn't it possible that ##\Delta## is an uncountably infinite set with no first element ... but ... not sure what this would mean for the basis ...

Can you clarify ...?

Peter
 
Yes, sorry, I should have written "first element of the set ##\Gamma##", which is prescribed as a countable, indexed subset of ##\Delta##. I'll go back and correct my post.
 
Thanks Andrew ...

Peter
 

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