Normal reaction in banked road circular motion

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the analysis of forces acting on a vehicle moving along a banked circular road. Participants are examining the normal reaction force, centripetal force, and the implications of the banking angle in the context of circular motion.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants express disagreement with the treatment of forces, particularly the handling of inertial and centripetal forces. Questions are raised regarding the direction of the centripetal force and its relationship to the banked surface. There is an exploration of how forces should be represented in the equations of motion for this scenario.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants questioning the validity of certain assumptions and interpretations of the forces involved. Some guidance has been offered regarding the nature of centripetal force and its components, but no consensus has been reached on the correct approach to the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating through the complexities of force diagrams and the implications of the banking angle, indicating a need for clarity on the definitions and roles of various forces in circular motion.

physea
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Homework Statement


upload_2016-5-11_11-28-0.png


Homework Equations


ΣF=0

The Attempt at a Solution


upload_2016-5-11_11-30-2.png


Basically I don't agree with this solution, I think it is R1 + R2 - mgcos5 + mv^2sin5/r = 0. Can you help me please?
thanks!
 
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Basically, I don't like that for ΣF it takes the fictional inertial force opposite to centripetal force, instead of taking the actual centripetal force. Isn't this wrong?
Second thing I don't know is the direction of the centripetal force in such situation: isn't it from the centre of gravity of the vehicle towards the centre of the circular motion? Ie. isn't it PARALLEL to the surface of the banked road? Because here, he has it parallel to the horizon, instead of parallel to the banked road!
 
physea said:
isn't it from the centre of gravity of the vehicle towards the centre of the circular motion? Ie. isn't it PARALLEL to the surface of the banked road? Because here, he has it parallel to the horizon, instead of parallel to the banked road!
Fom the centre of gravity of the vehicle to the axis of the circular motion. And when banking a road, they usually have a verical axis (otherwise you would just have a sloping plane).
physea said:
for ΣF it takes the fictional inertial force opposite to centripetal force
You should see is as: ##R_1+R_2-mg\cos 5^\circ## contribute a fraction ##\sin 5^\circ## to the actual centripetal force ##mv^2/r##.

The presentation is somewhat suggestive: ##\sum F = 0## would mean uniform linear motion, not a circular trajectory. Here ##\sum F \ne 0##. In fact, ##\sum F= {mv^2\over r}##.
 
physea said:
Second thing I don't know is the direction of the centripetal force in such situation: isn't it from the centre of gravity of the vehicle towards the centre of the circular motion? Ie. isn't it PARALLEL to the surface of the banked road? Because here, he has it parallel to the horizon, instead of parallel to the banked road!

The drawing is correct. Note how the radius is specified.
 
physea said:
Basically, I don't like that for ΣF it takes the fictional inertial force opposite to centripetal force, instead of taking the actual centripetal force. Isn't this wrong?
Centripetal force is a resultant force, not an applied force. It is the component of the resultant that is normal to the direction of travel. Where the speed is constant, that makes it the entire resultant: ΣFother=Fcentripetal.
Centrifugal force is a fictional force, but is an applied force, not a resultant: ΣFother+Fcentrifugal=0.
Since centripetal and centrifugal are equal and opposite, the equations are the same.
physea said:
Second thing I don't know is the direction of the centripetal force in such situation: isn't it from the centre of gravity of the vehicle towards the centre of the circular motion? Ie. isn't it PARALLEL to the surface of the banked road? Because here, he has it parallel to the horizon, instead of parallel to the banked road!
The vehicle is describing a circle in a horizontal plane. The centre of that motion is therefore in that plane, not down the bottom of the slope.
 

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