Number of jordan blocks in Jordan decomposition

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the Jordan decomposition of matrices, specifically focusing on the structure and characteristics of Jordan blocks. Participants explore the conditions under which specific Jordan block forms can be realized and how to determine the correct form based on the properties of the matrix.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a specific Jordan block form and questions its validity.
  • Another participant confirms that the presented matrix does indeed have the specified Jordan canonical form.
  • A subsequent participant discusses the relationship between the dimension of the kernel and the number of Jordan blocks, as well as the size of the largest block.
  • This participant poses a question about distinguishing between two different Jordan block forms and asks what additional information might be needed to determine the correct form.
  • Another participant suggests that algorithms exist to convert matrices to their Jordan canonical form and mentions checking subspaces to differentiate between the proposed forms, but expresses uncertainty about more advanced methods.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the existence of Jordan block forms and the relationship between kernel dimensions and block sizes. However, there is no consensus on how to determine the correct Jordan form between the two examples provided, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the need for specific information about the matrix in question to accurately determine the Jordan block structure, suggesting that the current examples may lack sufficient context for a definitive answer.

jinawee
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Given a matrix $$A$$. Is it possible to have a Jordan block form like:

$$\begin{pmatrix}
\lambda & 1 & 0 & 0\\
0 & \lambda & 0 & 0 \\
0 & 0 & \lambda & 1\\
0 & 0 & 0 & \lambda\\
\end{pmatrix}$$

?
 
Last edited:
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The matrix you named above has exactly that jordan canonical form. Sooooooo...yes.
 
Then I have another question.

The dimension of ker(A-λI) is the number of Jordan blocks associated to λ. And n, where n is given by dim(ker(A-λI)^n)=dim(ker(A-λI)^(n+1)) is the size of the largest Jordan block. The total size is dim(ker(A-λI).

So, how do we know which form is the correct one in the following case?

$$\begin{pmatrix}
\lambda & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & \lambda & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & \lambda & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 &\lambda & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 &\lambda & 1 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 &0& \lambda & 1\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & \lambda\\
\end{pmatrix}$$

or

$$\begin{pmatrix}
\lambda & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & \lambda & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & \lambda & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 &\lambda & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 &\lambda & 1 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 &0& \lambda & 1\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & \lambda\\
\end{pmatrix}$$

If there isn't enough information, what else do I need?
 
I mean there are algorithms to turn any given matrix into its Jordan canonical form, so if you have a specific matrix, then there is always a way to tell the difference. To distinguish between the above cases you can always check that the matrices obtained by restricting the domain to a certain subspace have the desired block form. I have no idea if there are better ways of checking beyond these basic tricks, however, since I rarely use canonical forms.
 

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