On the expected value of a sum of a random number of r.v.s.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the expected value of the sum of a random number of independent and identically distributed (i.i.d.) random variables. Participants explore the conditions under which the expected value exists, specifically focusing on the requirements of finiteness for the random variables involved and the implications of probability generating functions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references a theorem stating that if the expected value of the random variable ##X## is finite, then the expected value of the sum ##S_N## can be derived using the probability generating function.
  • Another participant questions the necessity of the conditions ##EN<\infty## and ##E|X|<\infty## for the existence of ##ES_N##, suggesting that it might be possible to derive finiteness from other relationships.
  • A proposed inequality is presented, indicating that the expected value of the sum ##E|S_N|## can be expressed in terms of the expected values of ##N## and ##|X_1|##, though the correctness of this expression is uncertain.
  • One participant suggests using the law of total expectation to express ##E|S_N|## in terms of the distribution of ##N## and the expected value of the sum of the i.i.d. variables.
  • Another participant raises a question about the dependency of ##S_N## on the random variables involved, specifically whether it is a function of both ##N## and the individual random variables ##X_1, \ldots, X_N##.
  • A further clarification is made regarding the measurability of ##S_N## in relation to the random variables involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the necessity of the conditions for finiteness and the relationships between the expected values. There is no consensus on the correctness of the proposed inequalities or the dependency of ##S_N## on the random variables.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential limitations in their reasoning, particularly regarding the assumptions made about the finiteness of expected values and the application of inequalities. The discussion remains open to further exploration of these mathematical relationships.

psie
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TL;DR
I am confused about a proof concerning the expectation of a sum of a random number of random variables
There's a theorem in An Intermediate Course in Probability by Gut that says if ##E|X|<\infty\implies EX=g_X'(1)##, where ##g_X## is the probability generating function. Now, consider the r.v. ##S_N##, which is the sum of a random number ##N## of terms of i.i.d. r.v.s. ##X_1,X_2,\ldots## (everything's nonnegative integer-valued, and ##N## is independent of ##X_1,X_2,\ldots##). One can derive the probability generating function for ##S_N##, namely ##g_{S_N}(t)=g_N(g_X(t))##. I am now reading a theorem that states;

Theorem If ##EN<\infty## and ##E|X|<\infty##, then ##ES_N=EN\cdot EX##.

The author proves this using the theorem I stated in the beginning, namely that ##E|X|<\infty\implies EX=g_X'(1)##. What I don't understand is why we require ##EN<\infty## and ##E|X|<\infty##. For ##ES_N## to exist via generating functions, we require ##E|S_N|<\infty##, but I don't see how this means that we should require ##EN<\infty## and ##E|X|<\infty##.

One idea that comes to mind is the following, but I'm not sure if this is correct: $$E|S_N|=E(|X_1+\ldots +X_N|)\leq E(|X_1|+\ldots +|X_N|)=E (N|X_1|)=EN E|X_1|,$$and so we see that ##E|S_N|## is finite if ##EN## and ##E|X_1|## are finite, as required by theorem. But I'm doubting if ##E(|X_1|+\ldots +|X_N|)=E (N|X_1|)## is correct. Grateful for any confirmation or help.
 
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You can start with
##E|S_N|=\sum_{k=1^\infty} P(N=k) E|X_1+..+X_k|##

And now you are doing triangle inequalities on fixed number of terms
 
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Office_Shredder said:
You can start with
##E|S_N|=\sum_{k=1^\infty} P(N=k) E|X_1+..+X_k|##

And now you are doing triangle inequalities on fixed number of terms
Silly question maybe, but which variables is ##S_N## and consequently ##|S_N|## a function of? Certainly ##N##, but is it correct to say it is also a function of ##X_1,\ldots,X_N##?
 
I think we should be able to write $$S_N = \sum_{j = 1}^{\infty}X_j \mathbf1_{j \leq N},$$ so ##S_N## is ##\sigma((Y_n)_{n\in\mathbb N})##-measurable, where ##Y_1=N, Y_2=X_1, Y_3=X_2, \ldots##.
 

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