Origin of geometric similarities between multipoles & AO's

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the geometric similarities between atomic orbitals and multipoles, exploring whether these similarities arise from a mutual dependence on spherical harmonics. Participants examine the implications of this analogy in the context of chemistry and physics, particularly in relation to the shapes of electric field patterns and angular wave functions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if the geometric similarities between atomic orbitals and multipoles originate from their mutual dependence on spherical harmonics.
  • Another participant provides a reference to a textbook that illustrates the analogy between monopoles, dipoles, quadrupoles, and atomic orbitals, noting that orbitals do not possess polar character.
  • Some participants argue that the analogy is simply illustrative and may not accurately describe reality, suggesting that the geometric representation of valence electrons as poles is more intuitive for explaining chemical bonds.
  • A participant expresses curiosity about the extent to which the analogy reflects reality and whether spherical harmonics contribute to the shapes of electric field patterns from multipoles.
  • One participant mentions that angular-momentum eigenstates provide a multipole expansion of solutions to the Schrödinger equation, drawing a parallel to multipole expansions in electrodynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the analogy between atomic orbitals and multipoles is illustrative, but there is no consensus on the extent to which this analogy accurately describes physical reality or the role of spherical harmonics in this context.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on definitions of terms like "polar character" and the unresolved nature of how spherical harmonics might influence the shapes of electric field patterns.

Steven Hanna
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a textbook I'm reading has pointed out geometric similarities between atomic orbitals and multipoles. do these similarities originate from a mutual dependence on the spherical harmonics? if so, how does something like a dipole or a quadrupole depend on the Ylm's? Note that my I did my undergrad in chemistry, not physics.
 
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Can you give the reference of the textbook you are reading?
 
DrClaude said:
Can you give the reference of the textbook you are reading?

It's "modern physical organic chemistry" by anslyn and dougherty, page 19. The book states that "monopoles look like s-orbitals (spheres); dipoles look like p orbitals (a + end and a - end); quadrupoles look like d orbitals; octupoles look like f orbitals, etc. The analogy between multipoles and orbitals is just given to illustrate phasing properties; orbitals do not have polar character."
 
I think it is simply an analogy.
 
I agree on @DrClaude's opinion of an analogy.
Steven Hanna said:
The analogy between multipoles and orbitals is just given to illustrate phasing properties; orbitals do not have polar character."
The imagination of valence electrons as geometric poles is somehow better suited to explain chemical bonds than smooth shells would be. It almost automatically reminds on our plastic models we have for the elements and the way we write bonds.
However, would be interesting to know something about to which extend this analogy is a description of reality.
 
fresh_42 said:
I agree on @DrClaude's opinion of an analogy.

The imagination of valence electrons as geometric poles is somehow better suited to explain chemical bonds than smooth shells would be. It almost automatically reminds on our plastic models we have for the elements and the way we write bonds.
However, would be interesting to know something about to which extend this analogy is a description of reality.

right, that's what I'm curious about. I'm pretty sure that the shapes of AO's are pretty much determined by the angular wave function. And I also know that the Ylm's show up in a lot of other applications, e.g. rigid rotor. Could they also somehow be involved in generating the shapes of electric field patterns like those arising from dipole and quadrupole moments?
 
The angular-momentum eigenstates provide a multipole expansion of the solutions of the Schrödinger equation. This is in vary close analogy to a multipole expansion of any partial differential equation, including electrodynamics. Perhaps that's what the book's author had in mind.
 

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