Other dimensions have been proven .

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the existence of other dimensions, particularly in the context of string theory and potential experimental evidence. Participants explore the implications of these dimensions on concepts such as space-time, particle behavior, and the expansion of the universe. The conversation includes technical arguments, speculative ideas, and personal reflections on the nature of scientific inquiry.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that other dimensions have been proven mathematically and at CERN, suggesting implications for warping space-time at quantum levels.
  • Others challenge this claim, stating that there is no experimental evidence for the existence of extra dimensions, labeling some assertions as nonsensical.
  • String theory is mentioned as a framework that proposes multiple dimensions, with some participants arguing that it is not universally accepted due to its lack of empirical evidence.
  • One participant references a paper discussing the bending of light by black holes as potential evidence for extra dimensions, while another critiques the interpretation of this paper, suggesting it only discusses possibilities rather than confirmed findings.
  • There are discussions about the nature of quantum particles and their behavior, with some participants expressing confusion over the relationship between quantum mechanics and higher dimensions.
  • Personal attacks and misunderstandings arise, with participants urging for respectful discourse and clarification of intentions.
  • A later reply reflects a willingness to learn and acknowledges the complexity of proving higher dimensions or dark matter, while expressing a desire to continue hypothesizing about these topics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the existence of other dimensions, with multiple competing views presented. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the validity of claims about experimental evidence and the implications of string theory.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of empirical evidence for string theory and the varying interpretations of scientific papers. The discussion also highlights the challenges of communicating complex ideas and the potential for misinterpretation among participants.

jarroe
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Other dimensions have been proven...

Since other dimensions have been proven both mathmatically and at cern, I do not consider the topic of warping out of our current space/time dimension out of the realm of possibility especially if it is done on an atomic or quantum level initially. A carrier particle that is labeled perhaps with an isoptope? Particles do seeth in and out of existence. Then if space/time is moving/expanding where would the particle end up. The rate of expansion of the universe perhaps? Thoughts on the subject...
 
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Interesting thought but I am not sure what you're trying to discuss here. Is it the rate of expansion of the universe , the particle or energy fluctuations ?
I thought space-time was dependent on reference frames so perhaps the same applies .
 


jarroe said:
Since other dimensions have been proven both mathmatically and at cern,

They have not, and furthermore have received exactly zero experimental EVIDENCE, let alone proof.

In light of this, everything else in your post is nonsense.
 


String theory has proven 11 dimensions or at least 10 depending on which version of the theory you ascribe to. Did I miss some new revalation that contradicts this? I think it is pretty well accepted there are more dimensions than the 3 (or 4 if you include time)dimensional world we live in.
Dr Roe
 
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Please leave the personal attacks out. Nonsense is a little harsh. I’m in the pursuit of knowledge and intellectual discussion just like everyone else here in the forum.
 


String theory is, as of right now, a completely untestable hypothesis, which besides having exactly zero empirical evidence for it, also makes zero falsifiable predictions. It is by no means 'pretty well accepted' that the extra dimensions it predicts actually exist. Theorists find a rich playground in string theory, and to be sure it shows a lot of promise to be a theory which could describe nature. But again I have to reiterate, there is not a shred of evidence either for or against the theory. Science popularizers like to make it sound like it's inevitably true, but this simply isn't the case.

I will try to address the rest of your post a little more seriously:

Warping in spacetime is a common thing, and is the foundation of general relativity. There exist solutions which connect two apparently distant parts of the same universe via a tunnel, i.e. a wormhole. These are more or less classical objects, and while we don't know whether or not they do (or can) exist, at least they are founded in a well tested theory. It's important to note though that while it might seem, if you try to visualize this, that the wormhole has to somehow take a path through the 'fifth dimension', this is not the case.

Regarding warping on a quantum/atomic level, I have no idea what you mean.

I understand the idea you're trying to convey with a carrier particle, but any speculation here is science fiction.

The particles 'seething in and out of existence' is a result of quantum mechanics, and doesn't really have anything to do with other dimensions. It's not as though they are popping into our dimension from another, then leaving. Rather, they are being quite literally 'pulled' out of the vacuum.

Your last two sentences remain a mystery to me as well; I do not know what you're asking.
 


There is a shred of evidence actually:


http://phys.org/news/2010-11-black-hole-proof-extra-dimensions.html

Light bending by a black hole may offer proof of extra dimensions November 18, 2010 (PhysOrg.com) -- Researchers at the University of Pennsylvania report that a new test for measuring the ability of gravity to bend light seen from distant stars around large objects like black holes may offer proof of the existence of extra dimensions in the universe.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2010-11-black-hole-proof-extra-dimensions.html#jCp
 


If you would actually read the paper here, you would note that nothing has actually been done. He is reporting on the POSSIBILITY of a deviation from GR, and how it COULD be measured. However he even states that this is likely to be beyond astronomical imaging capabilities.

This article is written pretty poorly though, since at first glance it does convey the sense that the proposed experiment has actually been performed. Since these kind of papers are published every day, it's pretty mundane though and I sympathize with the need to make it a little 'spicier'.
 
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I did read the paper. Thanks for insulting me however with the presumption that I didn't.
 
  • #10


jarroe said:
I did read the paper. Thanks for insulting me however with the presumption that I didn't.

Please mellow the attitude. Folks are trying to help you with your misunderstandings, and are trying to do it in a straightforward way.
 
  • #11


jarroe said:
Please leave the personal attacks out. Nonsense is a little harsh.

No, nonsense is just right. That is NOT any kind of attack and your persistent belief that folks here pointing out where you are wrong is some kind of attack on you is not going to get you anywhere. Nonsense is nonsense and will be called that on this forum, without any intent to "attack" anyone.

+1 on what berkeman said
 
  • #12


No attitude. Just don't do well with disrespectfulness. Nabeshin can continue to insult me since I'm the new guy. I'm sorry,
Dr Roe
 
  • #13


jarroe said:
No attitude. Just don't do well with disrespectfulness. Nabeshin can continue to insult me since I'm the new guy. I'm sorry,
Dr Roe

This post IS attitude. You are not being picked on. Go search the forum and you will see plenty of other posts, even from me, where others have been told their posts are nonsense. It isn't personal, it's simply the truth.
 
  • #14


If you posted a paper/link to try and prove a point, and someone told you to actually read it when you had actually read it, how would you react Drakkith?
 
  • #15


This discussion has gotten pretty far off topic. If you feel you've been wronged or insulted, then I suppose I'm sorry for the miscommunication.

Regardless, have I answered your original question to your satisfaction or do you have any other follow up questions about my responses?
 
  • #16


No, thanks for your attempt to answer. Not sure we will ever be able to directly prove higher dimensions or dark matter from our space/time reality, but that doesn't mean that don't exist or we cannot hypothesis about the topic. I stand corrected with other dimensions being proven. I had thought string theory had the math to back it up, and that explained why gravity is weaker than the other forces due to dilution through the dimensions. I have a lot to learn I guess. Thanks for your time and thoughts.
 

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