Penguin diagrams and CP violation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on CP violation in kaon systems, specifically the role of strong penguin diagrams and their contributions to different isospin amplitudes. Participants explore the theoretical underpinnings of why gluonic penguin diagrams primarily affect the K → (ππ)_{I=0} amplitude, while isospin 2 amplitudes are attributed to electroweak penguins.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the leading order contributions of strong penguin diagrams to isospin amplitudes, specifically questioning the role of gluons in K → (ππ)_{I=0} and the distinction from isospin 2 amplitudes.
  • Another participant suggests that gluonic penguin operators do not differentiate between uu- and dd- final states, thus only contributing to zero isospin states, while electroweak penguins contribute to both isospin states.
  • A further request for clarification is made regarding why gluonic penguin operators do not differentiate between final states and how this leads to their contribution being limited to I=0 final states.
  • One participant explains that the structure of gluonic penguin operators leads to equal contributions to uu- and dd- states, while electroweak penguins introduce different factors based on quark charge, supporting the claim that gluonic contributions are restricted to I=0.
  • A participant expresses difficulty in demonstrating the isospin properties of QCD penguins, presenting a mathematical approach using isospin operators and seeking validation of their reasoning.
  • Another participant confirms the use of ladder operators and emphasizes that the symmetric state of quark and antiquark pairs must correspond to an isospin zero state, ruling out the isospin one case due to symmetry requirements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and agreement on the theoretical aspects of gluonic and electroweak penguin contributions, with some points of contention remaining regarding the mathematical justification of isospin properties.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to specific theoretical frameworks and mathematical properties, but limitations in assumptions and definitions are present, particularly regarding the interpretation of isospin operators and their application to penguin diagrams.

Einj
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Hi everyone. I have been studying CP violation in kaon systems. I would like to know is someone can explain why, to leading order, strong penguin diagrams (i.e. involving a gluon) only contribute to the K\to (\pi\pi)_{I=0} amplitude, while the isospin 2 amplitude is given by the electro-weak penguins (i.e. involving a photon or a Z boson).

Thank you very much

Edit: I can add more information to the question. Take the gluon penguin diagram. It contains a (\bar ds) current which is an SU(3) octet and another current which is a flavor singlet. Therefore, it transform as an (8_L,1_R) representation of SU(3)_L\times SU(3)_R. In many books I've found that this implies that it can only carry a change in isospin \Delta I=1/2. Can anyone explain why?
 
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Gluonic penguin operators do not differentiate between a final state uu- and final state dd-,so they only contribute to final states of zero isospin.Those electroweak contribute for both.And that ΔI=1/2 selection rule has it's origin in nonperturbative hadronic physics,and I don't think there is any good explanation for it.It is rather an experimental data to fit the small value of I=2 to I=0.
 
Thank you very much for the answer! Could you explain a little bit further why they don't differential between the two final states and why this means that they only contribute to I=0 final states? Thank you very much
 
The gluonic penguin operators contain factor like ∑(q-q)V+/-A,Which contribute equally to uu- and dd-,while the electroweak part brings in factors like ∑eq(q-q)V+/-A.Eletroweak penguins with different final states acquire different factors like eq=2/3 for q=u and eq=-1/3 for q=d.You can show now that gluonic ones only contributes to I=0 case.
 
I'm sorry to bother you but that's exactly what I can't show.

Edit: I found the following properties on Donoghue's book. Could you tell me if I'm doing correctly? The action of the isospin rising and lowering operators on the quark fields are:
$$
I_+d=u,\;\; I_+\bar u=-\bar d,\;\;I_-u=d,\;\;I_-\bar d=-\bar u,
$$
all the others are zero. Therefore, we have, in the case of QCD penguins:
$$
I_+(\bar u u+\bar d d)=(I_+\bar u)u+\bar u(I_+u)+(I_+\bar d)d+\bar d(I_+d)=\bar d u-\bar d u=0
$$
and
$$
I_-(\bar u u+\bar d d)=(I_-\bar u)u+\bar u(I_-u)+(I_-\bar d)d+\bar d(I_-d)=-\bar u d+\bar u d=0.
$$

Therefore, since both the lowering and rising operators give zero it must be an I=0 operator. Is that correct?
 
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You can use ladder operators,but see simply that quark and antiquark pair can have isospin of 0 or 1,and the 1 case is already ruled out as per symmetry requirement.The state symmetric in interchange of u and d is indeed isospin zero state.
 
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Got it! Thanks
 

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