Philosophy and the new Velikovskian Physics

In summary, the conversation touches on a new trend in fundamental physics that aims to incorporate unknowable historical events into the understanding of nature. This concept has gained scientific credibility, with examples such as the impact that led to the extinction of dinosaurs and the idea of punctuated evolution. However, there is still hesitation and skepticism towards these ideas, with some viewing them as mere speculation rather than true physics. The conversation also references the controversial theories of Velikovsky, who incorporated legends and wild surmises into his ideas of catastrophic events. Ultimately, the discussion raises the question of how much of our understanding of nature is based on known laws and how much is influenced by historical chance events that we may never fully understand.
  • #1
oldman
633
5
Here I comment on a new trend in fundamental physics and ask philosophy folk whether they think that it represents an acceptable shift in the way physics is done (remembering the tautology that physics is that which is done by physicists!).

Established and traditional aspects of the philosophy of a physicist might include the following prescriptions:

Observe the workings of nature with an intelligent eye; keep a sharp watch for apparent regularities; probe any newly observed regularities in Nature's behavour with the experimental techniques that are to hand; describe the so explored regularities with the language of mathematics, with its help make predictions of nature's behaviour that can be falsified and, if no such predictions are falsified, provisionally incorporate theories about the observed regularities into the body of accepted wisdom. (Last and by no means least, use this knowledge to stimulate technical progress; be financially rewarded, become famous and be awarded prizes.)

Velikovsky (see for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velikovsky ) had a different and catastrophist philosophy. He cobbled together observations of Nature's present condition with legends of the past, injected the idea of sensational disasters like planetary collisions into his mix of wild surmise --- and became a successful best-selling author and lecturer. In doing so he became a famous bete noire for the scientific community.

Yet some aspects of Velikovsky's catastophist philosophy have acquired scientific respectability. For example it is now accepted that the dominant status of our species was made possible by the astronomical catastophe that overtook dinosaurs some 65 million years ago. Attempts to use orbital calculations to trace the genesis of this event back to collisions between asteroids by have recently been reported. And among biologists the idea of punctuated evolution is no longer the anathema it once was. We live and learn.

It seems to me that in accounting for the face that nature now presents to us we have always to recognise the interplay of two distinct factors. The first is the fundamental regularities and laws that concern physicists, with their Popperian stress on prediction and falsifiability. The second is the generally unknowable sequence of historical chance events that shape the face of nature we now see, that Velikovsky so dramatised and are not part of science.

I claim that physicists seem recently to be trying to incorporate such unknowable sequences into their own endeavours, and that it gives fundamental physics a new Velikovskian flavour.

I am here referring to the unknowable sequence of events that led to the choice of "our" vacuum, and "our" laws of physics from the 10^500 or so other vacua postulated by string theory, and to the similarly unknowable events that caused "our" universe to "bang-out" of an unknowable multiverse --- ideas of the "landscape" variety, that is.

At first sight such ideas seem to me like silly idle speculations rather than physics. But then I remember how venomously Velikovsky's notions were received by the scientific community of his time, how later they turned out to incorporate a grain of truth. Also, so much of what we are must depend on mysteries of the past. For instance, the events that led to a meeting between your great-great grandfather and great-great-grandmother are almost certainly unknown to you. Yet for you they were vitally important! Perhaps the landscape scenario is relevant, after all.

I then equivocate. What do philosophy folk think about the new Velikovskian physics?
 
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  • #2
oldman said:
I then equivocate. What do philosophy folk think about the new Velikovskian physics?

Man sounds like a quack. I don't think I would credit him with much. He had a mind for science fiction. So did L. Ron Hubbard. Just because his ideas may resemble in some vague way modern science doesn't mean much in my opinion. He simply took a radical anti-status quo position. The fact that the status quo of the time wasn't entirely correct doesn't make him ahead of his time. If he published today I'm sure people would react the same way they did in the past.
 
  • #3
It seems to me that in accounting for the face that nature now presents to us we have always to recognise the interplay of two distinct factors. The first is the fundamental regularities and laws that concern physicists, with their Popperian stress on prediction and falsifiability. The second is the generally unknowable sequence of historical chance events that shape the face of nature we now see, that Velikovsky so dramatised and are not part of science.

Interesting point.

In both your cases, I suspect scientists do what is commonly called inference to the best explanation, or IBE.

Given a set of phenomena, what potential explanation, if true, would best explain it? Considerations that come into "best" include whether it explains diverse phenomena, whether its predictions are confirmed, and whether it gains independent support from surprising quarters. If it has been fudged to fit specific evidence, if it can only explain exactly what it was invented to explain, that counts against it.

This reasoning can lead us to infer specific events and sequences of events as well as laws. I get up one morning and discover the cheese has gone from my fridge, and there are tiny pawprints on the floor, and I can hear a tiny pattering noise. I infer to the best explanation: a mouse stole my cheese. This is an event, not a law. Similarly, I notice the sudden disappearance of the dinosaurs, I notice a thin layer of iridium in the rocks, I notice a big crater...

Historians have noted that, for example, John Herschel and Charles Darwin worked very much along these lines. Mathematical physics and evolutionary theory can both fit the bill nicely. So can geology and Big Bang theory. Both backward-looking and forward-looking science is covered.

How about those "unknowable sequences" from before the Big Bang? That's an interesting one. Such a claim is so ambitious that it surely falls into the "very prone to fudging" category. I think this is the problem with such claims - not unfalsifiability per se. But it might be permissible if an idea tailored only to explain one specific feature of our universe turned out to explain the whole lot without any amendment. Personally I would say exactly the same thing about string theory.

You're right that IBE isn't Popper's idea of science. But Popper doesn't really give us a good reason why his science is the best science. Philosophers have pretty much ripped apart Popperian falsificationism. It lives on only in the form of "falsifiability", a popular methodological slogan. Sure, it's good methodological advice to look for the bad news and avoid confirmation bias - good advice, that is, if you want to get to the best explanation.
 
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  • #4
JoeDawg said:
Man sounds like a quack. I don't think I would credit him with much. He had a mind for science fiction. So did L. Ron Hubbard. Just because his ideas may resemble in some vague way modern science doesn't mean much in my opinion. He simply took a radical anti-status quo position. The fact that the status quo of the time wasn't entirely correct doesn't make him ahead of his time. If he published today I'm sure people would react the same way they did in the past.
Yes, I agree. I hold no brief for Velikovsky; but then I think that string theorists and proponents of landscape ideas make suggestions which, although cloaked in impressive mathematics, are contributing little more than Velikovsky did to the progress of science. Sadly, the present status quo seems to be far from "entirely correct".
 
  • #5
Lord Ping said:
Interesting point.

In both your cases, I suspect scientists do what is commonly called inference to the best explanation, or IBE... Both backward-looking and forward-looking science is covered.
Yes. This is often the practical way of making progress. What you say about the problem with ambitious speculations is is also well taken. And thanks for enlightening me about philosophers and Popperian falsificationism. It's too simple-minded by half, I agree.
 
  • #6
oldman said:
Yes, I agree. I hold no brief for Velikovsky; but then I think that string theorists and proponents of landscape ideas make suggestions which, although cloaked in impressive mathematics, are contributing little more than Velikovsky did to the progress of science. Sadly, the present status quo seems to be far from "entirely correct".

My impression from your link is that Velikovsky was simply outside his field and his depth.
The status quo may indeed be wrong, but at least its in line with a consistent reasoning.

A healthy skepticism is of course always a good thing.
 

1. What is the main premise of "Philosophy and the new Velikovskian Physics"?

The main premise of "Philosophy and the new Velikovskian Physics" is that there is a connection between philosophy and the new physics proposed by Immanuel Velikovsky. This connection lies in the understanding of the fundamental nature of reality and the role of consciousness in shaping our scientific understanding.

2. Who is Immanuel Velikovsky and what is his contribution to the field of physics?

Immanuel Velikovsky was a Russian-American scholar who proposed a new theory of physics in the 20th century. His theory challenged the traditional Newtonian and Einsteinian views of the universe and suggested that electromagnetic forces play a much larger role in shaping the cosmos than previously thought.

3. How does the new Velikovskian physics differ from traditional physics?

The new Velikovskian physics differs from traditional physics in several key ways. Firstly, it emphasizes the role of electromagnetic forces and plasma in shaping the universe, rather than gravity. Secondly, it challenges the notion of a static and uniform universe, instead proposing a dynamic and ever-changing cosmos. Lastly, it suggests that consciousness plays a fundamental role in shaping our understanding and perception of reality.

4. What is the role of philosophy in understanding the new Velikovskian physics?

The role of philosophy in understanding the new Velikovskian physics is crucial. Philosophy provides the framework for understanding the fundamental nature of reality and the limitations of our scientific methods. It also helps us question and critically examine our assumptions and biases, allowing for a more open-minded approach to scientific inquiry.

5. How has "Philosophy and the new Velikovskian Physics" been received by the scientific community?

The reception of "Philosophy and the new Velikovskian Physics" by the scientific community has been mixed. While some have praised the book for its thought-provoking ideas and potential for advancing our understanding of the universe, others have criticized it for its departure from traditional scientific principles and lack of empirical evidence. However, the discussion and debate sparked by this book have contributed to the ongoing exploration of the nature of reality and the role of consciousness in shaping our understanding of the cosmos.

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