Physics has taken the wrong turn

[Adrian59]

This is an extract from my letter of resignation from the forum:

My belief is that physics has taken a wrong turn, and what passes as science is nothing more than speculation without hard evidence. As a challenger to the accepted paradigms, I can understand how I have ruffled a few feathers. However, science needs its detractors for the pursuit of truth. Once you start to censor any idea that does not completely agree with an elite, one is on a tricky downward slope.

Of course PF is not going to make much difference either way. I just used it as a sounding board. However, if all academic physics is as stuck in its ways as PF appears to be, we are all in for a long wait for the next great advance. I won't hold my breath!

Adrian59.

 

[nuuskur]

My belief is that physics has taken a wrong turn, and what passes as science is nothing more than speculation without hard evidence.

Is one's belief hard enough evidence? Of course, you can do as you wish, but this very statement seems counterproductive to what your overall complaint is.

Once you start to censor any idea that does not completely agree with an elite, one is on a tricky downward slope.

Sounds problematic in the abstract, are there any specific examples to go with it? Also, consider that "the elite", whatever that means, might (rightfully) disregard contradictory conjectures in order to maintain the pursuit of truth.

Also, pooling all of the many flavours of physics as "physics" and claiming it has gone wrong, perhaps true perhaps not, seems overly simplifying.

 

[Rive]

Feels like there is a story behind this...
To go or not is your decision, but I can't see your reason to go.

As PF is about conveying established science, of course it is 'stuck' and forcibly kept in direction.

As the required groundwork to do anything noteworthy in academic science is really enormous by now, it also got the function of entry ticket. And regardless the price of that ticket things are still bustling below the surface of the established colossi like standard model or BigBang or GR.

Maybe you were looking at the wrong places. Or a wrong way.

 

[nuuskur]

Constructive criticism is always welcome, maybe you are right and "physics" has gone wrong (and who knows, maybe math as well). But then the discussion should not degenerate to a philosophical one about what one believes. Stay the course of truth backed by evidence.

 

[Rive]

discussion should not degenerate to a philosophical one

It's kind of funny how philosophy forged the ways of modern science - just to forever banish itself from it...

 

[Nugatory]

Of course PF is not going to make much difference either way. I just used it as a sounding board.

The forum mission statement says that PF is not a sounding board for challenges to established physics, so if that’s what you want you will have to look elsewhere.

 

[Baluncore]

However, if all academic physics is as stuck in its ways as PF appears to be, we are all in for a long wait for the next great advance.

PF will be slow to change as it is an educational forum. It is teaching the dominant paradigm, while keeping it conservative for the students. The students need to pass their exams and become qualified, without rocking the boat.

There are safer places to discuss the many alternatives to the current model.
Why resign, when it will not change the accepted physics model.

 

[Nugatory]

It's kind of funny how philosophy forged the ways of modern science - just to forever banish itself from it...

I think of it less as a banishing, more as a gradual drifting apart over a period of several centuries. Forging a tool and using it are different activities.

 

[pines-demon]

This is an extract from my letter of resignation from the forum:

My belief is that physics has taken a wrong turn, and what passes as science is nothing more than speculation without hard evidence. As a challenger to the accepted paradigms, I can understand how I have ruffled a few feathers. However, science needs its detractors for the pursuit of truth. Once you start to censor any idea that does not completely agree with an elite, one is on a tricky downward slope.

Of course PF is not going to make much difference either way. I just used it as a sounding board. However, if all academic physics is as stuck in its ways as PF appears to be, we are all in for a long wait for the next great advance. I won't hold my breath!

Adrian59.

I get the current zeitgeist to feel that physics is stuck and that some versions of fundamental theoretical physics have led nowhere (even if we have some progress from time to time in non-fundamental areas). However, even if PF is far from perfect (too much snarky comments), the rules and their intentions to keep most conversation grounded in sources and rigorous knowledge cannot be seen as delusion. It is the opposite, it's having these grounded conversations that we can make a step forward away from speculation.

 

[fresh_42]

My belief is that physics has taken a wrong turn, and what passes as science is nothing more than speculation without hard evidence.

I think this is wrong. Newton was wrong, but his laws are perfect for me to keep my car on the road. Einstein might be wrong, but my navigator works successfully. Quantum mechanics might not be the final answer, but it works so well that I can answer your post here.

It is not the lack but the existence of hard evidence and unbelievable accuracy that makes it hard to find alternatives. Every new thought has inevitably to provide these accuracies before it even makes sense to think about it. And the path to understanding these accuracies is a hard one, even without the burden of ideas that do not achieve them.

Furthermore, our rules explicitly allow us to discuss every published paper. We just use their peer reviews to distinguish between "somewhere on the internet" from "xy has published a paper".

 

[pinball1970]

This is an extract from my letter of resignation from the forum:

My belief is that physics has taken a wrong turn, and what passes as science is nothing more than speculation without hard evidence. As a challenger to the accepted paradigms, I can understand how I have ruffled a few feathers. However, science needs its detractors for the pursuit of truth. Once you start to censor any idea that does not completely agree with an elite, one is on a tricky downward slope.

Of course PF is not going to make much difference either way. I just used it as a sounding board. However, if all academic physics is as stuck in its ways as PF appears to be, we are all in for a long wait for the next great advance. I won't hold my breath!

Adrian59.

Is it because of this?

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/dark-matter-is-running-out-of-places-to-hide.1065869/

From experience, it is best just to take negative comments on the chin and move on. It is PF they will be negative for a reason.

 

[JT Smith]

...my letter of resignation from the forum

Why would you suppose that this is necessary or that it would matter? If you leave the theater in the middle of the movie do you give a speech?

 

[DaveC426913]

PhysicsForums is vocally about the current standard model as taught in schools.

This is aligned with your cause, because current rising physicists are going to need to know what is in the box before they can constructively think outside the box.

 

[berkeman]

Is it because of this?

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/dark-matter-is-running-out-of-places-to-hide.1065869/

No, not just that. This user has a long history here of this:

As a challenger to the accepted paradigms,

Which does not fit the PF model. Hence, he is leaving of his own accord, instead of continuing toward the ultimate ban.

 

[Rive]

Newton was wrong...

I think that's the part which is responsible for the attitude of most challengers.
Newton was never proven to be wrong, he's still as good as mint*.
He was just reduced to be a special case

_{* yep, that was a lame attempt for a joke}

 

[fresh_42]

I think that's the part which is responsible for the attitude of most challengers.

Think about this until the end. Physics - as we know it - describes the world by differential equations. It is in its kernel a description by linear approximations, easy ones like Newton's laws, more complicated ones in Lie theory and general relativity, or even unsolvable ones like Navier-Stokes. In my opinion, reinventing physics would also require a completely new mathematics, starting with Leibniz and going beyond the achievements of dozens of geniuses since then. I cannot see anything even close to that in mathematics. So until then, I suggest we remain by the descriptions via differential equations. They work. Einstein may have abolished ether, but he didn't abolish Newton. That we call observations we cannot fully understand dark does not mean that the bright ones are wrong.

 

[Rive]

Einstein may have abolished ether, but he didn't abolish Newton.

That's my point exactly. Newton went small against SR but remain. SR went small against GR but remain. Whatever we can expect as the Next Big One will make GR go small(er), but it'll still remain.
The old way of challenge to prove that GR (or whichever established one) is wrong is just so ... wrong.

 

[Vanadium 50]

This is an extract from my letter of resignation from the forum:

And yet, here you are.

This may surprise you, but this is not the first time we have heard something like "I can't actually do physics myself, but you guys are doing it all wrong."

 

[jedishrfu]

This is an extract from my letter of resignation from the forum:

My belief is that physics has taken a wrong turn, and what passes as science is nothing more than speculation without hard evidence. As a challenger to the accepted paradigms, I can understand how I have ruffled a few feathers. However, science needs its detractors for the pursuit of truth. Once you start to censor any idea that does not completely agree with an elite, one is on a tricky downward slope.

Of course PF is not going to make much difference either way. I just used it as a sounding board. However, if all academic physics is as stuck in its ways as PF appears to be, we are all in for a long wait for the next great advance. I won't hold my breath!

Adrian59.

Part of the problem is that new posters feel that PF is a conduit into the academic world, which it is not.

PF is a group of amateurs/volunteers with professional STEM backgrounds who share insights, help students with homework, and discuss science results in a more rigorous academic way.

However, we are not a sounding board. We don't allow discussion on personal research, speculation, or challenges to accepted peer-reviewed STEM topics.

The ball is in your court. Many posters here like the way we handle STEM topics, and perhaps if you stay longer, you will, too.

Jedi

 

[jtbell]

We have a lot of posters here who like the way we handle STEM topics and perhaps if you stay longer you will too.

He's been here since 2009. Our current stance dates from around 2011 (when we discontinued the "Independent Research" forum) to around 2014 (when our current FAQ on speculative topics was written). So he's had plenty of time to get used to it.

 

[Drakkith]

My belief is that physics has taken a wrong turn, and what passes as science is nothing more than speculation without hard evidence.

Then you don't know very much about how mainstream science works.

As a challenger to the accepted paradigms...

I understand. You're a 'couch quarterback' and have never played the game, but you want to make broad, sweeping statements about how bad the state of science has gotten.

However, science needs its detractors for the pursuit of truth.

Yes, but those detractors belong in the scientific community, calling out bad science in a professional way. People who can provide detailed reasons why a paper is nonsense, for example. Or who can point to all the flaws in a poorly controlled, low-n medical study. You are not one of these people and nothing you say or do here at PF will affect the mainstream scientific community.

Once you start to censor any idea that does not completely agree with an elite, one is on a tricky downward slope.

No, the slope is very well managed, with clearly delineated areas that are easy to see. If we moderators follow the stated PF rules then the slope isn't slippery at all. This is because PF rules clearly state what is and isn't allowed and tie acceptable topics and posts to professional mainstream literature. This gives us a very clear way of determining what to allow and what to delete.

However, if all academic physics is as stuck in its ways as PF appears to be, we are all in for a long wait for the next great advance.

I'm sorry science isn't advancing at a pace and in the direction that you would like. That does not mean that there is something fundamentally wrong with science or the professional scientific community.

Thank you for your time and your feedback. And thank you to everyone who commented.

Thread locked.