Pictures of abstractions behind mathematical equations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenge of visualizing mathematical concepts, particularly in the context of electromagnetism and the Maxwell equations. Participants explore how mathematical equations relate to physical phenomena and seek resources that provide visual representations of these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire to understand the physical meaning behind the Maxwell equations and how they describe electromagnetism, aiming to visualize mathematical concepts better.
  • Another participant describes the first pair of Maxwell's equations as representing electricity and magnetism as conserved fluids, with specific characteristics for each type of field.
  • This participant elaborates on the second pair of equations, framing them as energy laws that describe the interaction between electric and magnetic fields, emphasizing the flow of energy and its relationship to potential energy.
  • A different participant reiterates their initial request for visual resources related to mathematical concepts and mentions Feynman's Lectures on Physics Volume 2 as a valuable resource.
  • One participant requests actual pictures or visual aids to better understand the concepts discussed, indicating a preference for visual representation over textual explanations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of visualizing mathematical concepts, but there is no consensus on specific resources or the best methods to achieve this understanding. The discussion remains open-ended with multiple viewpoints presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying degrees of familiarity with the Maxwell equations and their implications, and there are references to specific mathematical interpretations that may depend on individual understanding and definitions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in the visualization of mathematical concepts, particularly in physics and electromagnetism, as well as those seeking resources to aid in their understanding of complex equations.

jimgavagan
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I need to understand physics (and other) concepts but I'm having trouble visualizing what the equations mean.

One example would be an applied math thing - I want to understand what about electromagnetism exactly the Maxwell equations are describing exactly so I can gain insight into what math equations are describing exactly when they refer to the physical world - I then also want to understand how the combining the equations for magnetism and the equations for electricity lead to the math-based discovery of electromagnetism (Maxwell equations) in order to gain insight into what math-based discoveries of physical phenomenon look like, just for its own sake.

(Ultimately, though, once I figure out through the examples above what about the physical world that mathematical equations are describing, I want to use this info in order to make my way into the even more abstract world of theoretical math, if that helps with your replies.)

So I can start visualizing math better...Are there any websites or anything with pictures of mathematical concepts/abstractions given a particular equation, or even, perhaps, given just a particular branch of math in general?

Thanks!
 
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hi jimgavagan! :smile:
jimgavagan said:
… I want to understand what about electromagnetism exactly the Maxwell equations are describing exactly so I can gain insight into what math equations are describing exactly when they refer to the physical world …

the first pair of https://www.physicsforums.com/library.php?do=view_item&itemid=91" (Gauss' law and Gauss' law for magnetism) essentially say that electricity (or magnetism) are like a conserved fluid …

magnetism is like a fluid with no sources and sinks: the amount of fluid is conserved, ie the amount flowing into any region always equals the amount flowing out: divB = 0

electricity is like a fluid which does have sources and sinks (like taps and plugholes): positive charges are sources, and negative charges are sinks: a source or sink produces a constant inflow or outflow of electric field, equal to the charge: the amount of fluid is conserved, once we take into account the sources or sinks: ie the amount flowing into any region always equals the amount flowing out plus-or-minus the rate from the sources or sinks (the charge inside the region): divE = ρ​

the second pair of Maxwell's equations (Faraday's law and Ampere's law) are essentially energy laws: they say that electricity and magnetism are not a https://www.physicsforums.com/library.php?do=view_item&itemid=174": potential energy is supplied to the system, proportionally to the rate of flow of field and sources (or sinks) …

since https://www.physicsforums.com/library.php?do=view_item&itemid=269" is measured by its effect along a path, we always integrate round a closed path (and differentiating that gives us a curl) …

they say that potential energy is continually supplied to the system, proportional to the rate of flow of the electric and magnetic fields, and of the electric charge (rate of flow of electric charge, ∂q/∂t, is of course the same as electric current, I; and there is no magnetic charge)

however, it is mixed-up :rolleyes::
the electric potential energy is supplied from (minus) the flow of the magnetic field: ∫E.dl = - ∂/∂t ∫∫B.dA,
and the magnetic potential energy is supplied from the flow of the electric field and of the electric charge: ∫B.dl = ∂/∂t ∫∫E.dA + ∂q/∂t​
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jimgavagan said:
I need to understand physics (and other) concepts but I'm having trouble visualizing what the equations mean.

One example would be an applied math thing - I want to understand what about electromagnetism exactly the Maxwell equations are describing exactly so I can gain insight into what math equations are describing exactly when they refer to the physical world - I then also want to understand how the combining the equations for magnetism and the equations for electricity lead to the math-based discovery of electromagnetism (Maxwell equations) in order to gain insight into what math-based discoveries of physical phenomenon look like, just for its own sake.

(Ultimately, though, once I figure out through the examples above what about the physical world that mathematical equations are describing, I want to use this info in order to make my way into the even more abstract world of theoretical math, if that helps with your replies.)

So I can start visualizing math better...Are there any websites or anything with pictures of mathematical concepts/abstractions given a particular equation, or even, perhaps, given just a particular branch of math in general?

Thanks!

I know of no better book than Feynmann's Lectures on Physics Volume 2
 
Hello guys,

I was looking for more like an actual picture? Thanks for these replies though, they probably can't hurt!

Jim
 

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